Abraham: The Father of all who believe (in the One True God )

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commonsense
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Abraham: The Father of all who believe (in the One True God )

Post by commonsense » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:29 pm

Darin, thanks for the response. :)
You mentioned that Abraham is the progenitor of the people. I'm taking that you're saying he was just the physical father of the people, in other words, blood relations.
Progenitor also means a person that first indicates a direction, originates something such as a belief, or serves as a model. A person who originates an intellectual movement.

God did start a movement in Abraham. He was directed to leave the idols of his fathers behind and go start a new nation- the "House of Israel"(kingdom of God). These were to be a people who served the one True God by following His commands.
Genesis 17:7 " I will establish My covenant as an everlasting covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you for generations to come."
"I will be your God and you will be My people."

This isn't talking about Abraham's physical descendants. It refers to his spiritual descendants, people who believe in the same God and obey the same commands.
Genesis 18:19 "I have singled him out to command his sons and his household after him to maintain the way of God by just and upright living."

I agree that Jesus was the Son of God as well. "All who are led by the Spirit are sons of God." Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. According to man's traditions, Ishmael would have been the inheritor(ruler) of Israel. But Abraham was following God, and according to Him, the inheritance belongs to a person who possesses the Spirit of God, the same Spirit that was in Abraham. This is why Issac was given the inheritance.

"For they are not of Israel which are of Israel. Neither because they are the (physical)seed of Abraham are they all children." The spiritual descendants of Abraham are the children of God.

commonsense
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Re: Abraham: The Father of all who believe (in the One True God )

Post by commonsense » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:52 pm

I think the New Testament does a pretty good job at explaining spiritual unity/being one with God and one with each other in the same Spirit.

Going back to John 8:37-39
"I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. I speak what I have seen with my Father.....If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham."

In Verse 50 the Jews ask Jesus if He's seen Abraham.

The descendants of Abraham that receive the inheritance are those that obey the word/commands that God gave to Abraham. These descendants are known by their words and their actions(works) because they all speak the same words and do the same things. In other words, what you say and what you do testify as to whether or not Abraham is your Father and that you worship the same God.
Jesus was telling these Jews that if they had known what Abraham said and did the things that Abraham said to do, then they would have known Jesus because Jesus and Abraham were one in the same Spirit of God.
No. Jesus did not see Abraham, but He knew him through writings and through others who followed him, the same way we know Jesus. If you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father Abraham and you have seen the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (The Holy Spirit).

Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't say too much about Abraham. It seems like something is missing.

commonsense
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Re: Abraham: The Father of all who believe (in the One True God )

Post by commonsense » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:45 pm

Galatians 3:29 'And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed....

Jesus was not sowing a different seed. He was sowing the same seed that Abraham sowed. There are are other faiths and denominations that claim to have come from Abraham. But Abraham only sowed one "seed"-one faith in one God and one word(Love others as yourself.)
In other words, these other faiths grew from another "seed"(belief or word) planted by someone else.Or they can be a mixture of seeds ( beliefs or words) that come from different people who have added things over the course of time. Jesus was bringing people back to the faith of the Father Abraham, reuniting us with the Spirit of the one true God (Holy Spirit).

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darinhouston
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Re: Abraham: The Father of all who believe (in the One True God )

Post by darinhouston » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:04 pm

commonsense wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:45 pm
Galatians 3:29 'And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed....

Jesus was not sowing a different seed. He was sowing the same seed that Abraham sowed. There are are other faiths and denominations that claim to have come from Abraham. But Abraham only sowed one "seed"-one faith in one God and one word(Love others as yourself.)
In other words, these other faiths grew from another "seed"(belief or word) planted by someone else.Or they can be a mixture of seeds ( beliefs or words) that come from different people who have added things over the course of time. Jesus was bringing people back to the faith of the Father Abraham, reuniting us with the Spirit of the one true God (Holy Spirit).
Perhaps, or maybe he's just saying that we are Abraham's seed in the sense that Jesus was literally his physical descendant and we are Jesus' spiritual descendants. I don't see Jesus as a restorationist Jew - I think he was declaring a fulfilled Judaism, not a return to Abraham's faith.

commonsense
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Re: Abraham: The Father of all who believe (in the One True God )

Post by commonsense » Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:58 am

darinhouston wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:04 pm
Perhaps, or maybe he's just saying that we are Abraham's seed in the sense that Jesus was literally his physical descendant and we are Jesus' spiritual descendants. I don't see Jesus as a restorationist Jew - I think he was declaring a fulfilled Judaism, not a return to Abraham's faith.
Darin, thanks for the response. Looking at the verse again, it says if you belong to Christ then you are Abraham's seed. It doesn't say that we are Jesus' spiritual descendants, although we would be that too. But it says Abraham's seed, and we know that we aren't Abraham's physical descendants.

Galatians 4:28 "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Isaac received the inheritance because he followed the same God as Abraham. In other words he was "born of the Spirit".
Verse 29 "But, as he who was born according to the flesh (physical descendants) persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now."

Isaac sowed the same "seed" as his father. Genesis 26:12 "Then Isaac sowed in that land, and reaped in the same year a hundredfold; and the Lord blessed him."

Jesus wasn't restoring Judaism. He was declaring Abraham's faith in one God and one word( Love another as yourself.) "Return to Me and I will return to you.
Just like today, there are many faiths and denominations that claim to come from Jesus. But, Jesus only planted one "seed"- one word. This was Abraham's "seed" that came from the One true God. As Jesus said,"These words are not My own , but My Father's.",meaning they come from both Abraham and God, as they were "one in the Spirit."

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