Bill Schlegel Videos

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 2814
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by darinhouston » Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:58 pm

Homer wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:57 pm
Darin,

You wrote:
Many scholars disagree with you as to this passage "identifying" the Word "as God" from a linguistic perspective.
Could you inform as to who they are? I'd like to see how they come to their conclusion.
I'll see what I can find, but we've discussed that at great length in other discussions - I know Paidion's translation deals with this. This long thread on the preamble of John goes back a ways, but is worth re-visiting...

https://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3457

Some scholars come at it from the meaning of Logos (not a divine being, but a philosophical term describing manifestations of God's interactions. But, also the word order of Theos en ho Logos - not Logos en ho Theos suggesting more of it being descriptive of the "sort of stuff" the Logos is, not Logos=God but more like Logos(like/from/about/pro/aligned with)God.

commonsense
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:25 pm

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by commonsense » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:14 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:51 pm
Dwight - So which of those "sons of God" shed their blood so that mankind could be forgiven of their sins? Which of those "sons of God" lived a life without sin? As you can see, there is only one Son of God like Jesus. The "others" can't hold a candle compared to Him.
Many of them shed their blood to teach the truth of God. The Levitical law wasn't the way. The sacrificing of animals, burning of incense,etc.etc. were the ways of foreign gods. God didn't need an animal sacrifice for people to be forgiven of sins. This is a false teaching. The way to be forgiven of sins was as the prophets say: Put away your sin and love others as yourself. This has always been the way. It was never any different.

I'm just curious, have you read the Old Testament?

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:13 am

commonsense wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:14 am
dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:51 pm
Dwight - So which of those "sons of God" shed their blood so that mankind could be forgiven of their sins? Which of those "sons of God" lived a life without sin? As you can see, there is only one Son of God like Jesus. The "others" can't hold a candle compared to Him.
Many of them shed their blood to teach the truth of God. The Levitical law wasn't the way. The sacrificing of animals, burning of incense,etc.etc. were the ways of foreign gods. God didn't need an animal sacrifice for people to be forgiven of sins. This is a false teaching. The way to be forgiven of sins was as the prophets say: Put away your sin and love others as yourself. This has always been the way. It was never any different.

I'm just curious, have you read the Old Testament?
Dwight - Your interpretation is heresy, since you are claiming that we get forgiveness of sins by some other method besides trusting in Jesus' blood sacrifice. He alone has atoned for the sins of mankind. No amount of so-called obedience to the prophets and so-called loving others as yourself will save you, since you are deliberately rejecting the truth of putting your trust and faith in Jesus. In fact, if you really were obeying the prophets and loving others, you would embrace the truth.

Dwight - The Lord told Moses in Deuteronomy 18:18 - "I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. It shall come about that whoever shall not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him."

Dwight - Peter identifies that prophet as being Jesus in Acts 3:18-23. Stephen also identifies that same prophet as Jesus in Acts 7: 37 and 52.

Dwight - Jesus Himself identified as that prophet: "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for He wrote about Me. But if you do not believe His writings, how will you believe My words.

Dwight - Not only have I read the Old Testament, but I actually believe it. The proper interpretation of the Old Testament is found in the New Testament. Have you read the New Testament? If you have, then you are willfully rejecting the truth in it, because Jesus ALONE atones for your sin, not the works of so-called obedience.

Dwight - Let me quote your heresy: "The way to be forgiven of sins was as the prophets say: Put away your sin and love others as yourself. This has always been the way. It was never any different."

Dwight - None of us can "put away our sins". We can't today and they couldn't back then. Even if we were able to stop sinning totally today, and for the rest of our lives (which none of us could do), we would still have a long record of past sins that we are totally powerless to erase. Hebrews 10:4 says, "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Yet God DID command Moses to institute animal sacrifices, NOT foreign Gods. This was a foreshadowing of the true sacrifice of Jesus' body and blood, which ALONE ERADICATES SIN. ALL OF OUR SINS ARE WASHED AWAY, BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS. NOTHING ELSE CAN DO THAT.

Dwight - But do we still sin? Yes, of course, but we try not to. "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:8

Dwight- "If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness (that is, continue willfully in sin), we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the light (that is, in Jesus' righteousness and forgiveness and cleansing), as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS HIS SON CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN."

Dwight - So, an ON-GOING RELATIONSHIP WITH AND TRUST IN JESUS AND HIS BLOOD SACRIFICE IS NECESSARY TO BE A DISCIPLE OF JESUS AND TO BE SAVED. NOTHING ELSE WILL BRING US A CLEAN SLATE FROM THE PAST, PRESENT, OR FUTURE. NOTHING ELSE WILL SAVE US. HE IS TRULY OUR ONLY SAVIOR! APART FROM JESUS, WE'RE HOPELESSLY LOST.

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 2814
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by darinhouston » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:16 am

commonsense wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:14 am
dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:51 pm
Dwight - So which of those "sons of God" shed their blood so that mankind could be forgiven of their sins? Which of those "sons of God" lived a life without sin? As you can see, there is only one Son of God like Jesus. The "others" can't hold a candle compared to Him.
Many of them shed their blood to teach the truth of God. The Levitical law wasn't the way. The sacrificing of animals, burning of incense,etc.etc. were the ways of foreign gods. God didn't need an animal sacrifice for people to be forgiven of sins. This is a false teaching. The way to be forgiven of sins was as the prophets say: Put away your sin and love others as yourself. This has always been the way. It was never any different.

I'm just curious, have you read the Old Testament?
I know you were addressing this to Dwight, but let's avoid the tone of statements like "have you read the OT." That will only bait more of the same (as it seems to have done), and Dwight is trying to be respectful in his responses since his return. On the substantive points, I agree that the animal sacrifices etc. were never "effective" and that they were largely an accommodation until the problem of sin was finally dealt with at the cross. But, I differ on how you are forgiven today. We are to "put away our sin," but we are not able to do that on our own effort. What is required from us is to put our faith in Jesus, trust in his sacrifice, which is effective for us when we purpose to live under his lordship and (more to the point of this post) acknowledge our sin, ask for forgiveness, forgive others and turn from that sin, committed not to do it again but trusting in his grace and mercy if and when we stumble. Merely putting away sin (even if possible) isn't the point. It is the result/effect of living under his lordship and trusting in his grace and the power of the spirit to change us. This results in obedience, directionally. But, perfect obedience can not be achieved on our own accord and at least not under our own power of will alone. God was never desiring of sacrifice. To obey was always better than sacrifice. But, obedience isn't what he wants, he wants our hearts and minds aligned to his will and trusting in his love and the perfection of Jesus and not our own. If our hearts and minds are aligned, that will lead to obedience. I believe our obedience and the love of others is a measure of our alignment and growth, not a virtue in its own right.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:25 am

Darin, I have to say a hearty "AMEN" to what you just posted. I think it just reinforced my post and vice-versa.

commonsense
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:25 pm

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by commonsense » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:14 am

darinhouston wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:16 am
I know you were addressing this to Dwight, but let's avoid the tone of statements like "have you read the OT."
It was an honest question on my part. Many people don't really fully read the Old Testament. And I think it's important in order to understand what's going on.
darinhouston wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:16 am
To obey was always better than sacrifice. But, obedience isn't what he wants, he wants our hearts and minds aligned to his will
You can mince words all you want, but having our hearts and minds aligned to God's will IS obedience. And THAT'S what He's looking for.

As the prophets say: Pagan rituals such as the sacrificing of animals etc.etc. are totally useless and futile. They don't save. In fact, Isaiah says they are an abomination to the Lord, which is one of the reasons their temple was destroyed and such things were cast out.
darinhouston wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:16 am
What is required from us is to put our faith in Jesus, trust in his sacrifice,
I believe it's His words that we are to put our faith and trust in, because they are true. And if followed, they bring life. " My words are Spirit and they give life."

commonsense
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:25 pm

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by commonsense » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:13 am
Dwight - Not only have I read the Old Testament, but I actually believe it. The proper interpretation of the Old Testament is found in the New Testament. Have you read the New Testament?
Yes, I have read the New Testament.

My question to you: Are these words of Isaiah true?
"Is this not the fast I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; when you see the naked, that you cover him, and not hide yourself from your own flesh?
Then your light shall break forth like the morning, your healing shall spring forth speedily,and your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; you shall cry and He will say,"Here I am." If you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, if you extend your soul to the hungry and satisfy the afflicted soul, then your light shall dawn in the darkness and your darkness shall be as noonday. The Lord will guide you continually and satisfy your soul in drought, and strengthen your bones; you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail.

This all boils down to loving others as yourself.
And Jesus did what Isaiah said, becoming a " living" word. And we are to do the same. Imitate Christ because this is the way of salvation.

Jesus died for the same reason Isaiah was sawed in half: for preaching the TRUTH.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Commonsense -

Jesus told the leper that He healed, to "... go, show yourself to the priest, and present the offering (or gift) that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them." When we look at Leviticus 14:1-20, we see that the offering prescribed by Moses for the cleansing of a leper includes the killing of one bird and two male lambs. So again, we know that Jesus Himself sanctioned animal sacrifices, while Israel was under the Old Covenant.

Which means that your continued insistence that animal sacrifices were from foreign gods, is not confirmed by either the Old or the New Testament, or Jesus Himself.

Again, your teaching is incorrect.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:52 pm

commonsense wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm


My question to you: Are these words of Isaiah true?

Dwight - Of course they're true, but they were NOT written to us - they were written to the people of Judah and Jerusalem. Obviously, we can learn from Isaiah's words, but we are not under the Law of Moses or the prophets. Jesus never told us (Christians, both Jewish and Gentiles) to obey everything the prophets said. He told us to obey HIM. He said, "Why do you call Me, Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46 Notice He did NOT say that we should do what the prophets said - that's your misinterpretation.

This all boils down to loving others as yourself.

Dwight - Do we love ourselves enough to go after and obtain the truth? If we do, then we should desire that others know the truth also. What you're teaching is NOT truth. No one should listen to your false teaching.

And Jesus did what Isaiah said

Dwight- No He didn't. He did what the Father said. He wasn't obligated to obey Isaiah - rather Isaiah was obligated to obey Him.

Imitate Christ because this is the way of salvation.

Dwight - You can imitate Christ your whole life (or at least THINK that you are) and still be lost. Only those who OBEY Christ will be saved. If anyone follows your false teaching, they will be lost.

Jesus died for the same reason Isaiah was sawed in half: for preaching the TRUTH.

Dwight - This is only minimally true. Jesus died for a much greater reason than Isaiah did - Jesus died for the atonement and salvation of all mankind.

commonsense
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:25 pm

Re: Bill Schlegel Videos

Post by commonsense » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:22 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:52 pm
Dwight - You can imitate Christ your whole life (or at least THINK that you are) and still be lost. Only those who OBEY Christ will be saved.
Dwight, you're mincing words. Imitating Christ is the same as obeying Him.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:52 pm
Dwight- No He didn't. He did what the Father said.
Yes, He did. Jesus wasn't the only person that God spoke through. Isaiah is teaching the same thing as what Jesus and the New Testament writers are teaching- that is to love others as yourself.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:52 pm
Dwight - Do we love ourselves enough to go after and obtain the truth? If we do, then we should desire that others know the truth also. What you're teaching is NOT truth. No one should listen to your false teaching.
I've been saying all along that obedience to the Golden Rule is essential for salvation. I don't see how that's any different than what you have said in this statement: " Only those who OBEY Christ will be saved."

Post Reply

Return to “The Trinity”