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Re: Complexity and evolution of the cell

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:03 pm
by morbo3000
I'm learning a lot from Ben Stein's "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed." I'm sure it's been discussed here, but nonetheless, I'll post the link for people who maybe haven't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g

How does evolution explain the waggle dance?

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:55 pm
by Paidion
In my opinion, the following is the best natural evidence of a creator.

Honey bees exist in three classes:
(1)the Queen (A misnomer; she doesn't rule the hive; she should be called "The Layer")
(2) the Drones (The male bees. Do no work. Only function is to mate with a queen)
(3) The Workers (Younger workers clean the hive and feed the larvae; older workers fly away and collect nectar).

When an older worker discovers a new nectar source, she returns to the hive, and does a figure-8 waggle dance inside on one of the upright frames. Other workers follow her around as she dances. Then they leave the hive and go DIRECTLY to the nectar source she discovered, never having been there previously.

If the dancer moves directly UP, at the centre of the figure-8, then the nectar source is directly toward the sun. If, however, if she moves 27º to the left of the vertical, then the nectar source is 27º to the left of the sun... and so with any other angle at which she moves at the centre of the figure-8. For example, if she moves 63º to the right of the verticle, then the nectar source is 63º to the right of the sun. I was a hobby beekeeper for several years, and can attest that I was able to determine a nectar source by watching the waggle dance.

Now if this were all there were to it, an evolutionist could say that the other workers use the information to find the nectar source, for it's all a matter of survival. However, honey bees have never gone to school to learn geometry. In fact the bees that follow the dancer around determine the direction and distance of the nectar source, not from the angle of the dance, but from the pheromones excuding from the dancer's body. It would make sense to say that THAT fact would contribute to survival,but not the angle thing—not at all.

So it seems that the correspondence of the angle of the dance and the direction of the nectar source has no evolutionary explanation. So what explanation could there be? Other than that the Creator so created honey bees in order to make known His glory, and perhaps even to declare His handiwork as indeed the heavens do?

Re: Complexity and evolution of the cell

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:52 pm
by jonperry
SteveF wrote:
What are your thoughts about the predictability of evolution? Could God possibly be the smartest computer programmer ever, having taken into consideration every possible scenario? In other words, is it conceivable that God knew we would be the inevitable result of the evolutionary process even without Him intervening at all once the process started?
Sure, if God exists and really knows everything then this would certainly be possible. "Randomness" only exists from the perspective of someone who doesn't fully understand cause and effect. Things that seem random to us would not seem random to an all-knowing entity.