How Long Were the Creation Days?

[anochria]

QUESTION:
Science has shown conclusively that the earth is more than 4 billion years old. Doesn’t an earth that old directly contradict the Biblical idea that everything was created in just six 24-hour periods?

REPLY:

First off, Genesis speaks of 7 yoms (Hebrew translated as ‘day’).

The Hebrew word yom has 3 literal meanings: a 24 hour day, a 12 hour day, or an indefinite period of time/ age. Even the word day in English has roughly the same alternative meanings: we might say "Back in my day...." or "in George Washington’s day", etc... Also in English we speak of mornings and evenings of ages or long periods of time: “The sun was setting on the classical period” or “at the dawn of the Reformation”.

There are many interesting clues in Genesis 1 and 2 that tip us off that the author is intending yom to mean long periods of time. For instance, interestingly, day 7 does not have an evening, which leaves us with the indication that we are still in day 7, the day of God’s rest from creation (as a side note: this ‘resting’ of God on day 7 predicts that we will find man as the final creature to appear in the fossil record, and that's exactly what we find, no new species after man! Instead, we find only extinctions!)

It is sometimes suggested that this interpretation of yom is a modern attempt to reconcile Genesis with science by stretching the account out of its context or obvious meaning. However, this day/age theory is not something new designed to defend against scientific attacks on Scripture; some early church fathers and early rabbis interpreted the days in genesis to be long periods of time.

Perhaps the most compelling evidence that yom is not used to describe 24-hour periods is found in the description of day 6. All the following things happen in just that one "day":

1) Creation of land animals
2) Creation of Adam
3) Adam names animals in the garden
4) Adam gets lonely (presumably)
5) Eve created.

Does it seem even remotely likely that all of these events could happen in one 24 hour day? I know men need women, but I'm sure with all the new sights, Adam wouldn't have gotten lonely for at least a week!

For these and other reasons, I personally think it's clear that the author of Genesis clearly intended the reader to understand that each yom is a long period of time. Of course, this interpretation is not something that Christians should divide over, but one that can be investigated and debated well within the realm of Orthodox Christian belief. And honest pursuit of truth should of course be encouraged.

Please reply with questions and/ or comments if this is of interest to you.

[AaronBDisney]

I don't have long to reply but you mentioned nothing about the main indicator in Gen 1 of a 24 hour day. "And the evening and the morning were the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. day". If we're talking about many many years, what are the evening and morning? My understanding is that he's referring to one complete spin of the earth, and unless that was much much slower back then, that's around about 24 hours.

[anochria]

I see the references to "morning and evening" as akin to phrases like "the dawn of an age" or the "twilight of an age". These are metaphors for transitions- humans have always used them.

And, again, I think it's highly instructive that day 7 is not said to have closed. Btw, I think the author of Hebrews hints that we are still in this day 7, the rest of God, when he says that we may still enter that rest.

[anochria]

Genesis 2:4 (NKJV)

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

I also wanted to get your take on this usage of the word yom in Gen. 2:4 which either
a) describes the whole creation process as one day, or
b) the original creation of the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1) as a one day creation.

Steve- I think this has bearing on your theory of an old universe but a young earth. It would seem that there is either a strong precedent in the text of the creation account itself that yom can be used to describe an indefinitely long period or, rejecting that possibility, it seems you'd be forced to abandon an old universe in favor of one which was entirely created in a 24 hour period.

Thoughts?

[AaronBDisney]

I see the references to "morning and evening" as akin to phrases like "the dawn of an age" or the "twilight of an age". These are metaphors for transitions- humans have always used them.

And, again, I think it's highly instructive that day 7 is not said to have closed. Btw, I think the author of Hebrews hints that we are still in this day 7, the rest of God, when he says that we may still enter that rest.

On day 7 God rested or ended his creative work. Why does the mention of that day's end need to be there? The end of the other days are spoken of to introduce us to a new work that God will begin, but there was no new work to introduce in day 8 since it was completed after day 6.

I agree that there is significance in this and Hebrews 4, but in a spiritual way. We worked for our redemption, futile as that was, but we can now rest in Christ's finished work. There is no need to read into that that this is still the 7th day.

I don't know if you've addressed the problem of day age theory I mentioned earlier.
In Gen 1:11 God introduced "grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself" onto the scene. Yet it wasn't until the next 'yom' that he spoke the sun and moon into existence. So you have all this plantlife without the sun for possibly thousands or millions of years. Plus, they had to wait until YOM 6 to get the insects to pollenate them.

I understand that God can sustain all these forms of life apart from the means that we see today. Is that how you understand what happened? God miraculously sustained plant life?

Plus....why did God make the plants? Wasn't it chiefly for animals and man to live on? Why did He do it so many thousands, if not millions, of years before He created Adam?

It just seems to more logically and naturally fit the regular day understanding to my mind.

[anochria]

I don't know if you've addressed the problem of day age theory I mentioned earlier.
In Gen 1:11 God introduced "grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself" onto the scene. Yet it wasn't until the next 'yom' that he spoke the sun and moon into existence. So you have all this plantlife without the sun for possibly thousands or millions of years. Plus, they had to wait until YOM 6 to get the insects to pollenate them.

I understand that God can sustain all these forms of life apart from the means that we see today. Is that how you understand what happened? God miraculously sustained plant life?

Regarding day four, I explained my position on the other thread (Best evidences... old earth). Here's what I wrote:

Steve, I see the verses concerning the fourth day to be describing the final appearance of the sun, moon, and stars from the point of view of an observer on earth. Are you saying that you agree with that position?

In other words, the creation of the actual sun, moon, and stars was before day 1, when God created 'the heavens'.

So, the text of day four could read like this:

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God [had] made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He [had] also made the stars. 17 God [had] set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Paranthesis mine.

The "let there be", then, refers to those bodies becoming visibile to the earth and finally useful for their intended purposes. This comports with the majority opinion on the conditions of the early earth- an atmosphere going from opaque to transparent after the first beginnings of life.

Steve saw this as a possible option.


More later...

[AaronBDisney]

hmmmmm....I guess that's a possibility. If you are trying to convince me that the language of the Bible leaves room for an old earth interpretation, you are doing pretty good. If you are trying to convince me that the most natural understanding of Genesis 1 is that these days are not literal and that the sun (which was made millions of years prior) just appeared on day 4, then you're not doing so good.

I could see these arguments as a possibility, but not a likelihood. Exodus 20:11, if taken without contorting the meaning too much, makes it hard for me to take it the way you're seeing it.

[anochria]

It's interesting that this discussion is taking on the same tragectory as the similar thread on my forums

In response to Exodus 20:11, which states:
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. "


Here's my take, copied from my own forums. It also brings up a few other issues related to this subject:

In the Pentateuch there are not only Sabbaths every week, but Sabbaths every 7th year and after every 49th year (7 sevens). There is also another Sabbath theme in Daniel, when he predicts the sacrifice of the Messiah after 70 sevens (490 years). If we apply the above logic (a one-to-one correspondance) to these, then might we not come up with a Creation week lasting 7 years, 49 years, or even 490 years?

I think the Psalmist articulates this flexibility of the theme of 7 when he articulated that "with the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day". I don't think we should be looking for a one-to-one correspondance, but a general, variable correspondance around the theme of 7.

Since I think the Hebrew is demonstrably flexible enough for a variety of interpretations on this issue, and the text itself has several clues which one could argue support an old-earth perspective, I think it's only fair that we let science chime in on this issue. And science is, overwhelmingly supportive of an old earth.

[Sean]

QUESTION:
Science has shown conclusively that the earth is more than 4 billion years old. Doesn’t an earth that old directly contradict the Biblical idea that everything was created in just six 24-hour periods?

"Science" has demonstrated nothing of the sort. Perhaps we should define the term "science".

Perhaps the most compelling evidence that yom is not used to describe 24-hour periods is found in the description of day 6. All the following things happen in just that one "day":

1) Creation of land animals
2) Creation of Adam
3) Adam names animals in the garden
4) Adam gets lonely (presumably)
5) Eve created.

Does it seem even remotely likely that all of these events could happen in one 24 hour day? I know men need women, but I'm sure with all the new sights, Adam wouldn't have gotten lonely for at least a week!

So the most compelling evidence is that in your opinion it is unlikely God would do it that way because it would take too long (more than a day)? So what you deem unlikely is your best evidence? Do you also consider it unlikely that God can raise the dead? Maybe that will not happen either.

Adam gets lonely? Why read this into the text except to make it seem absurd that he would get lonely "so soon"? There is no mention of Adam getting lonely.

Frankly, I don't care how young or old the earth is. There is simply no way to know unless God tells us (since He was there). "Science" wasn't there. Since history is a one time event and we don't have a time machine there is no way to prove the age of the earth by the scientific method. Nor can we count up the geneologies listed in Genesis and conclude the age of the earth, since we have no way of knowing if there were generations skipped.

[Sean]

It's interesting that this discussion is taking on the same tragectory as the similar thread on my forums

In response to Exodus 20:11, which states:
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. "


Here's my take, copied from my own forums. It also brings up a few other issues related to this subject:

In the Pentateuch there are not only Sabbaths every week, but Sabbaths every 7th year and after every 49th year (7 sevens). There is also another Sabbath theme in Daniel, when he predicts the sacrifice of the Messiah after 70 sevens (490 years). If we apply the above logic (a one-to-one correspondance) to these, then might we not come up with a Creation week lasting 7 years, 49 years, or even 490 years?

I think the Psalmist articulates this flexibility of the theme of 7 when he articulated that "with the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day". I don't think we should be looking for a one-to-one correspondance, but a general, variable correspondance around the theme of 7.

Since I think the Hebrew is demonstrably flexible enough for a variety of interpretations on this issue, and the text itself has several clues which one could argue support an old-earth perspective, I think it's only fair that we let science chime in on this issue. And science is, overwhelmingly supportive of an old earth.

Ok, I'll restate this point that has already been made a different way:

Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

So the reason one could not work on the seventh day of the week but could on the first six were because God made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them in six days and rested on the seventh. So how long exactly do you think the six days are that we can work? Six million years perhaps? This makes no sense. Nor would it make sense to those who were under the old covenant. They were not confused about how long a day was or what the sabbath they should remember meant. It's stated in the text. It's only hard if you don't want it to be true.