I'm learning a lot from Ben Stein's "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed." I'm sure it's been discussed here, but nonetheless, I'll post the link for people who maybe haven't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g
Complexity and evolution of the cell
Re: Complexity and evolution of the cell
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
JeffreyLong.net
Jesusna.me
@30thirteen
JeffreyLong.net
Jesusna.me
@30thirteen
How does evolution explain the waggle dance?
In my opinion, the following is the best natural evidence of a creator.
Honey bees exist in three classes:
(1)the Queen (A misnomer; she doesn't rule the hive; she should be called "The Layer")
(2) the Drones (The male bees. Do no work. Only function is to mate with a queen)
(3) The Workers (Younger workers clean the hive and feed the larvae; older workers fly away and collect nectar).
When an older worker discovers a new nectar source, she returns to the hive, and does a figure-8 waggle dance inside on one of the upright frames. Other workers follow her around as she dances. Then they leave the hive and go DIRECTLY to the nectar source she discovered, never having been there previously.
If the dancer moves directly UP, at the centre of the figure-8, then the nectar source is directly toward the sun. If, however, if she moves 27º to the left of the vertical, then the nectar source is 27º to the left of the sun... and so with any other angle at which she moves at the centre of the figure-8. For example, if she moves 63º to the right of the verticle, then the nectar source is 63º to the right of the sun. I was a hobby beekeeper for several years, and can attest that I was able to determine a nectar source by watching the waggle dance.
Now if this were all there were to it, an evolutionist could say that the other workers use the information to find the nectar source, for it's all a matter of survival. However, honey bees have never gone to school to learn geometry. In fact the bees that follow the dancer around determine the direction and distance of the nectar source, not from the angle of the dance, but from the pheromones excuding from the dancer's body. It would make sense to say that THAT fact would contribute to survival,but not the angle thing—not at all.
So it seems that the correspondence of the angle of the dance and the direction of the nectar source has no evolutionary explanation. So what explanation could there be? Other than that the Creator so created honey bees in order to make known His glory, and perhaps even to declare His handiwork as indeed the heavens do?
Honey bees exist in three classes:
(1)the Queen (A misnomer; she doesn't rule the hive; she should be called "The Layer")
(2) the Drones (The male bees. Do no work. Only function is to mate with a queen)
(3) The Workers (Younger workers clean the hive and feed the larvae; older workers fly away and collect nectar).
When an older worker discovers a new nectar source, she returns to the hive, and does a figure-8 waggle dance inside on one of the upright frames. Other workers follow her around as she dances. Then they leave the hive and go DIRECTLY to the nectar source she discovered, never having been there previously.
If the dancer moves directly UP, at the centre of the figure-8, then the nectar source is directly toward the sun. If, however, if she moves 27º to the left of the vertical, then the nectar source is 27º to the left of the sun... and so with any other angle at which she moves at the centre of the figure-8. For example, if she moves 63º to the right of the verticle, then the nectar source is 63º to the right of the sun. I was a hobby beekeeper for several years, and can attest that I was able to determine a nectar source by watching the waggle dance.
Now if this were all there were to it, an evolutionist could say that the other workers use the information to find the nectar source, for it's all a matter of survival. However, honey bees have never gone to school to learn geometry. In fact the bees that follow the dancer around determine the direction and distance of the nectar source, not from the angle of the dance, but from the pheromones excuding from the dancer's body. It would make sense to say that THAT fact would contribute to survival,but not the angle thing—not at all.
So it seems that the correspondence of the angle of the dance and the direction of the nectar source has no evolutionary explanation. So what explanation could there be? Other than that the Creator so created honey bees in order to make known His glory, and perhaps even to declare His handiwork as indeed the heavens do?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Complexity and evolution of the cell
Sure, if God exists and really knows everything then this would certainly be possible. "Randomness" only exists from the perspective of someone who doesn't fully understand cause and effect. Things that seem random to us would not seem random to an all-knowing entity.SteveF wrote:What are your thoughts about the predictability of evolution? Could God possibly be the smartest computer programmer ever, having taken into consideration every possible scenario? In other words, is it conceivable that God knew we would be the inevitable result of the evolutionary process even without Him intervening at all once the process started?