Hi Steve,
I've come across this clip in youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztn ... re=related
Just wanted to know your take on it.
Thanks and God bless.
10 Questions for Rational Thinkers
10 Questions for Rational Thinkers
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hi RFCA,
There was a similar video posted here not too long ago, and discussed at length. Here is the link.
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=1932
Robin
There was a similar video posted here not too long ago, and discussed at length. Here is the link.
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=1932
Robin
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
God Bless
I'm not Steve, but I watched the video and have seen videos by this guy before...
1. Why won't God heal amputees?
Jesus healed a man with a withered hand. I've heard missionary stories that fall in line with this kind of miracle. But even if no such miracle had ever taken place, there are certainly rational explanations. The author of the video ASSUMES that miracles are supposed to happen 'on demand' through prayer, but God has never promised to answer prayer on demand (there are conditions attached, especially the condition that it must be in His will). So the question becomes, why doesn't God will to heal all or many amputees immediately upon request? The answer to that is quite simple. God doesn't will to heal all of any category of sick people immediately upon request.
Anyways, the Bible says the miracles of Jesus were signs. Signs of what? I believe they were signs/symbols of what was coming up in His ministry. When He raised the dead it was to foreshadow His own resurrection. When He healed the sick it was to communicate that He could deal with the most serious disease (sin). Throughout the Bible, in fact, miracles occur in clusters, not at a constant/steady pace.
2. Why are people starving?
People are starving because they don't have food. They don't have food because we live in a fallen world that doesn't produce perfectly. They don't have food because we live in a fallen world where people don't share. The author is basically asking why God didn't create a better world. But God did. Sin brought a curse. The author also implies that a loving God would have a plan to fix this. But God does. People can access eternal life on a new earth though God's Son.
3. Why demand the death of innocents?
This question assumes the innocence of the people in question (which is odd b/c he quotes verses where these people are rebelling against clear laws from their Creator). This question also fails to recognize the progressive nature of revelation. When I was young, I got the belt when I mis-behaved. This taught be a lesson that, in later years, a simple glance from my father would teach. Similarly, when God first introduced the law, it came with severe penalty so that we would understand the ultimate consequence of sin. The author, by the way, acts like these laws are still in effect.
4. Why does the Bible contain anti-scientific non-sense?
I'll reverse the question. Why has a vast array of scientific discovery come from applying Scripture and/or intellectuals with a Biblical worldview? Furthermore, the author uses a straw man that a worldwide flood would have had to cover today's tallest mountains when in reality those mountains would have been formed BY the worldwide flood and needn't have existed prior to or even during. He seems to fail to understant catastrophic plate tectonics.
5. Why does the Bible support slavery?
He fails to recognize that the Bible doesn't support everything it reports. The Bible also reports Satan's activities. Does this mean it supports Satan? He also fails to understand the historic realities of slavery in many of the Bible narratives. Slavery was less about race and more about economic and military realities of those days.
6. Why do bad things happen to good people?
Not only is this question repetitive (usually if you don't have good points you try to state the one's you have in a variety of ways for affect), but it is easily answerable for a rational Christian. First, we have to question the use of 'good.' Second, the Bible itself declares that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. The rest has already been addressed.
7. Why aren't there evidences of Jesus miracles?
There is evidence of Jesus' miracles. The gospels are a reliable historical account of Jesus life and even extra-biblical sources talk of Jesus as a miracle worker. What's more, the miracles of Jesus help to explain the fast rise of the Christian sect of Judaism.
8. Why hasn't Jesus appeared to you?
Why would I expect Him to? He didn't say He would.
9. Why eat the 'body and blood?' That is sick
This is a very odd question. The body and blood are bread and wine. They are symbols of Jesus' death because His death brings us life. The question should be worded, 'Why drink bread and wine.' This isn't sick at all. If Jesus had actually told His followers to literally eat His flesh and blood, this would be an appropriate question.
10. Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as the world?
There could be a wide variety of rational explanations for this. Maybe they don't and the statistics are being toyed with. Maybe they do and it's because not all people that say they are Christians really are Christians. Maybe they do and they are just being disobedient. Maybe Satan attacks Christian marriages more than others. Maybe Christian people feel more obligation to get married instead of just sleeping around, so there are more 'bad' marriages in the statistical pools for the Christians.
I don't think the author has thought through these questions very rationally. But even more importantly, he has ignored all the positive evidence for God, choosing instead to focus on poor 'negative' arguments. Even further, he has offered no explanation for an uncaused world.
1. Why won't God heal amputees?
Jesus healed a man with a withered hand. I've heard missionary stories that fall in line with this kind of miracle. But even if no such miracle had ever taken place, there are certainly rational explanations. The author of the video ASSUMES that miracles are supposed to happen 'on demand' through prayer, but God has never promised to answer prayer on demand (there are conditions attached, especially the condition that it must be in His will). So the question becomes, why doesn't God will to heal all or many amputees immediately upon request? The answer to that is quite simple. God doesn't will to heal all of any category of sick people immediately upon request.
Anyways, the Bible says the miracles of Jesus were signs. Signs of what? I believe they were signs/symbols of what was coming up in His ministry. When He raised the dead it was to foreshadow His own resurrection. When He healed the sick it was to communicate that He could deal with the most serious disease (sin). Throughout the Bible, in fact, miracles occur in clusters, not at a constant/steady pace.
2. Why are people starving?
People are starving because they don't have food. They don't have food because we live in a fallen world that doesn't produce perfectly. They don't have food because we live in a fallen world where people don't share. The author is basically asking why God didn't create a better world. But God did. Sin brought a curse. The author also implies that a loving God would have a plan to fix this. But God does. People can access eternal life on a new earth though God's Son.
3. Why demand the death of innocents?
This question assumes the innocence of the people in question (which is odd b/c he quotes verses where these people are rebelling against clear laws from their Creator). This question also fails to recognize the progressive nature of revelation. When I was young, I got the belt when I mis-behaved. This taught be a lesson that, in later years, a simple glance from my father would teach. Similarly, when God first introduced the law, it came with severe penalty so that we would understand the ultimate consequence of sin. The author, by the way, acts like these laws are still in effect.
4. Why does the Bible contain anti-scientific non-sense?
I'll reverse the question. Why has a vast array of scientific discovery come from applying Scripture and/or intellectuals with a Biblical worldview? Furthermore, the author uses a straw man that a worldwide flood would have had to cover today's tallest mountains when in reality those mountains would have been formed BY the worldwide flood and needn't have existed prior to or even during. He seems to fail to understant catastrophic plate tectonics.
5. Why does the Bible support slavery?
He fails to recognize that the Bible doesn't support everything it reports. The Bible also reports Satan's activities. Does this mean it supports Satan? He also fails to understand the historic realities of slavery in many of the Bible narratives. Slavery was less about race and more about economic and military realities of those days.
6. Why do bad things happen to good people?
Not only is this question repetitive (usually if you don't have good points you try to state the one's you have in a variety of ways for affect), but it is easily answerable for a rational Christian. First, we have to question the use of 'good.' Second, the Bible itself declares that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. The rest has already been addressed.
7. Why aren't there evidences of Jesus miracles?
There is evidence of Jesus' miracles. The gospels are a reliable historical account of Jesus life and even extra-biblical sources talk of Jesus as a miracle worker. What's more, the miracles of Jesus help to explain the fast rise of the Christian sect of Judaism.
8. Why hasn't Jesus appeared to you?
Why would I expect Him to? He didn't say He would.
9. Why eat the 'body and blood?' That is sick
This is a very odd question. The body and blood are bread and wine. They are symbols of Jesus' death because His death brings us life. The question should be worded, 'Why drink bread and wine.' This isn't sick at all. If Jesus had actually told His followers to literally eat His flesh and blood, this would be an appropriate question.
10. Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as the world?
There could be a wide variety of rational explanations for this. Maybe they don't and the statistics are being toyed with. Maybe they do and it's because not all people that say they are Christians really are Christians. Maybe they do and they are just being disobedient. Maybe Satan attacks Christian marriages more than others. Maybe Christian people feel more obligation to get married instead of just sleeping around, so there are more 'bad' marriages in the statistical pools for the Christians.
I don't think the author has thought through these questions very rationally. But even more importantly, he has ignored all the positive evidence for God, choosing instead to focus on poor 'negative' arguments. Even further, he has offered no explanation for an uncaused world.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hemingway once said: 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for'
I agree with the second part (se7en)
I agree with the second part (se7en)
Great job Matt!
These questions show someone to be less interested in finding the truth than they are to validating their worldview through a series of misrepresentations.
These questions show someone to be less interested in finding the truth than they are to validating their worldview through a series of misrepresentations.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Another thing stands out in the clip ---- an appeal to human pride.
"You're an intelligent, rational person aren't you? You've graduated from university, and you are a doctor or lawyer or teacher or a member of some other esteemed profession. So isn't it time to consider whether the tenets of your religion are rational? Or do they belong to the realm of the imaginary, of childish wishful thinking?"
The above is not an actual quote. I'm expressing by memory what seemed to have come through to me.
"You're an intelligent, rational person aren't you? You've graduated from university, and you are a doctor or lawyer or teacher or a member of some other esteemed profession. So isn't it time to consider whether the tenets of your religion are rational? Or do they belong to the realm of the imaginary, of childish wishful thinking?"
The above is not an actual quote. I'm expressing by memory what seemed to have come through to me.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
matt-
did you post your responses on the youtube comments section? i think you should. they are quite good.
TK
did you post your responses on the youtube comments section? i think you should. they are quite good.
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Hey. No, I don't think I've ever commented on a youtube video. I'll do that. Thanks 
EDIT: Nevermind, the character limit is so small I'd have to make about 15 comments, haha. I guess youtube discussion is geared towards brevity and cliche. That's why I like message boards, they are a lil better in that regard.
EDIT: Nevermind, the character limit is so small I'd have to make about 15 comments, haha. I guess youtube discussion is geared towards brevity and cliche. That's why I like message boards, they are a lil better in that regard.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hemingway once said: 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for'
I agree with the second part (se7en)
I agree with the second part (se7en)
-
_featheredprop
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:41 pm
- Location: PA
Good responses Matt...
What I found interesting is that with each question that the author of the video proposed, a statement is made to the affect of “You have to invent an excuse to explain this…” (my words – not an exact quote).
It is somewhat of a clever, yet deceptive, strategy. “Inventing an excuse” sounds very negative – as if one is scrambling to justify something unjustifiable.
By saying this, the author attempts to leave the viewer with the impression that any response offered is “inventing an excuse,” and therefore, unacceptable. I don’t believe the author wants an answer – he wants silence. It is similar to that old joke of asking a man if he still hits his wife. If he says “yes” he is guilty, and if he says “no” he admits to have been guilty of the charge in the past. It is a lose-lose dilemma.
Webster defines “excuse” as justification or reason for something. Discovering a justifying response to something is not the same thing as “inventing” an excuse for it. The author cleverly sets the scales so they will balance in his favor. That immediately shows me that this is not a sincere quest.
Near the end of the clip the author offers a possible answer to his own questions: that God is imaginary. Certainly that is one possible way of answering those questions. But a critically thinking person (like one to whom the video claims to appeal to) will quickly recognize that there are other valid options, and that by suggesting only one, the author is showing forth either his ignorance of the subject, or his very biased view. In any event the critically-minded person will not be impressed.
peace,
dane
What I found interesting is that with each question that the author of the video proposed, a statement is made to the affect of “You have to invent an excuse to explain this…” (my words – not an exact quote).
It is somewhat of a clever, yet deceptive, strategy. “Inventing an excuse” sounds very negative – as if one is scrambling to justify something unjustifiable.
By saying this, the author attempts to leave the viewer with the impression that any response offered is “inventing an excuse,” and therefore, unacceptable. I don’t believe the author wants an answer – he wants silence. It is similar to that old joke of asking a man if he still hits his wife. If he says “yes” he is guilty, and if he says “no” he admits to have been guilty of the charge in the past. It is a lose-lose dilemma.
Webster defines “excuse” as justification or reason for something. Discovering a justifying response to something is not the same thing as “inventing” an excuse for it. The author cleverly sets the scales so they will balance in his favor. That immediately shows me that this is not a sincere quest.
Near the end of the clip the author offers a possible answer to his own questions: that God is imaginary. Certainly that is one possible way of answering those questions. But a critically thinking person (like one to whom the video claims to appeal to) will quickly recognize that there are other valid options, and that by suggesting only one, the author is showing forth either his ignorance of the subject, or his very biased view. In any event the critically-minded person will not be impressed.
peace,
dane
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"God - He'll bloody your nose and then give you a ride home on his bicycle..." Rich Mullins 1955-1997
Hey Matt,mattrose wrote:Hey. No, I don't think I've ever commented on a youtube video. I'll do that. Thanks
EDIT: Nevermind, the character limit is so small I'd have to make about 15 comments, haha. I guess youtube discussion is geared towards brevity and cliche. That's why I like message boards, they are a lil better in that regard.
What about writing a short comment, and leaving a link to your response here?
(I'm not sure if youtube allows links - I haven't been game to go back to this video, my computer crashed last time in the middle of the first question).
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
You could also do a video response- generally people do these by simply filming themselves reading something off their computer screen. i am not technically proficient so i wouldnt know anything about how to upload it to youtube.
TK
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)