Christians don't believe in God!?

[Guest]

I tend to agree with you, JC. Jesus spent a lot of time with lost sinners, but showed little patience for those who wilfully disbelieved.

TK

[Guest]

This person states his argument as though it's something original and profound. I wonder why no other Atheists throughout history have tried to strike down the bible to get rid of Christianity.

Sarcasm? I don't think the bible is relevant to philosophical discussions about the existence of God.

Atheists have long been unable to defend a natural universe explaination when confronted with strong arguments from design, so the andedote has always been to belittle the bible.

Hahaha...yes, unable to.

We should save our energy (and time) for those individuals who are actually open to the idea of the supernatural. Close-minded people in the guise of "truth seeking" can't be dislodged from their position by logical arguments. I've tried. It doesn't work. People who actually care about truth, yet are looking for evidence, are a completely different story.

I think it's entirely funny that it's usually close-minded people who tend to accuse everyone else of being close-minded to their own viewpoints.

[Guest]

Asimov wrote:

I think it's entirely funny that it's usually close-minded people who tend to accuse everyone else of being close-minded to their own viewpoints.

yep, that's pretty much it. if you are a believer in the claims of Christ, then by necessity you are going to be close-minded to a whole host of ideas, namely ideas like there is no God and Jesus isnt who he said he was.

if that's close-minded, oh well. that can't be helped.

TK

[Guest]

I think it's entirely funny that it's usually close-minded people who tend to accuse everyone else of being close-minded to their own viewpoints.

I believe that in order for someone to conclude that the Biblical accounts are accurate, they must be open minded to begin with.

I agree with the earlier statement that Jesus did not waste his time with those would outright reject the message he was preaching. Jesus did say in Matthews

Matthews 7:6
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

For those who treat the Gospel with contempt as many athiests do, I will not waste a lot of my time with them. I will simply pray for them and leave it up to God.

[Guest]

Asimov, I'm open-minded in one sense and close-minded in another sense. I'm open to the idea that Jesus is exactly who the bible claims he is. I'm also open to the idea that the accounts of his life are fiction.

However, I'm close-minded in the sense that I've now looked at the available evidence from both sides and have made a choice. Everyone who starts out open-minded eventually become close-minded and there's nothing wrong with this, if not taken to extremes. Once you make a choice, you're closed off to alternatives that you've already found to be weak.

What I oppose is limiting one's beliefs right out of the gate and some religious folk are far worse than Atheists about forming opinions before the facts are in. I'm fine with people reaching conclusions after looking at the best arguments from all sides. If you've looked at the evidence presented by Christian apologists and remain unconvined, I simply say, "Take care and be well, my friend."

[Guest]

Believers of Christ are open minded that is why Christians are able to recognize between what is false and what is true. Christians never close their mind. Christians are discerners of the truth.

[Guest]

Asimov wrote:

I think it's entirely funny that it's usually close-minded people who tend to accuse everyone else of being close-minded to their own viewpoints.

yep, that's pretty much it. if you are a believer in the claims of Christ, then by necessity you are going to be close-minded to a whole host of ideas, namely ideas like there is no God and Jesus isnt who he said he was.

if that's close-minded, oh well. that can't be helped.

TK

Well exactly...so obviously you don't think there is anything wrong with being close-minded.

I believe that in order for someone to conclude that the Biblical accounts are accurate, they must be open minded to begin with.

What does that mean?

I agree with the earlier statement that Jesus did not waste his time with those would outright reject the message he was preaching. Jesus did say in Matthews

Well yea, why waste your time with someone who you know wont listen to you?

For those who treat the Gospel with contempt as many athiests do, I will not waste a lot of my time with them. I will simply pray for them and leave it up to God.

There's a difference between outright rejecting the Gospels and treating them with contempt, roblaine. I'm skeptical of a lot of things, especially claims by other people of supernatural occurances. Are you saying you wouldn't waste your time on me because I reject the claims of the bible until they have been evidenced?

Asimov, I'm open-minded in one sense and close-minded in another sense. I'm open to the idea that Jesus is exactly who the bible claims he is. I'm also open to the idea that the accounts of his life are fiction.

However, I'm close-minded in the sense that I've now looked at the available evidence from both sides and have made a choice. Everyone who starts out open-minded eventually become close-minded and there's nothing wrong with this, if not taken to extremes. Once you make a choice, you're closed off to alternatives that you've already found to be weak.

What I oppose is limiting one's beliefs right out of the gate and some religious folk are far worse than Atheists about forming opinions before the facts are in. I'm fine with people reaching conclusions after looking at the best arguments from all sides. If you've looked at the evidence presented by Christian apologists and remain unconvined, I simply say, "Take care and be well, my friend."

I completely understand that, man. I hate using the words close-minded or open-minded. I prefer to say that I'm open to being wrong if it can be shown that I am wrong.

Would you agree that is a more accurate description of you? I think I would be guilty of intellectual dishonesty if I were to reject evidence to the contrary of my belief without even analyzing it. It applies to everyone, including me, no double standard here.

[Guest]

Believers of Christ are open minded that is why Christians are able to recognize between what is false and what is true. Christians never close their mind. Christians are discerners of the truth.

I also think it's funny that you think you have the final word on what is false and what is true.

Everyone can determine what is false or true. It's called the ability to reason.

And yes, some Christians do close their minds, that why we have Creationists and Pat Robertson. I wouldn't call them discerners of the truth.

[Guest]

Believers of Christ are open minded that is why Christians are able to recognize between what is false and what is true. Christians never close their mind. Christians are discerners of the truth.

I also think it's funny that you think you have the final word on what is false and what is true.

Everyone can determine what is false or true. It's called the ability to reason.

And yes, some Christians do close their minds, that why we have Creationists and Pat Robertson. I wouldn't call them discerners of the truth.

Asimov,

Although I am not an atheist, but a follower of Jesus Christ, I think I can relate to much of what you say. I have been studying the various doctrines within Christendom long enough to come to the opinion that there is relatively few things that I can be "dogmatic" about. So many different ways of interpreting things. Those who think they have arrived at final truth and can dismiss other viewpoints, well, I often find this way of thinking offensive.

But there are some, perhaps a few, who are humble and open and willing to listen. These I find very refreshing. These can be found both within the "body of Christ" and outside as well. My personal opinion is that those real seekers of truth will, if they stay on that path, eventually find truth in Jesus (but that is just my viewpoint!)

Your viewpoint, and challenges to Christianity, are welcome here (from my perspective).

Mike

[Guest]

closed-mindedness is not a dirty word, Asimov. By necessity, when a person truly believes something to be true, then he would be close-minded to that which he feels is not the truth.

for example, i believe that George washington was the first president of the united states. therefore, my mind is closed to the fact that some other man was the first president. i COULD be open-minded about it, but why would i do that? skepticism has its limits.

there are some biblical issues i am open to -- for example that the universe may be 15 billion years old. there's some pretty solid evidence about that. of course, the Bible seems to say otherwise. if the earth is 15,000 years old i wouldnt be disappointed. it doesnt really matter to me.

but other things, like the claims of Jesus, i believe wholeheartedly. i believe there is a God. no matter what anyone says, I will believe this. therefore, while i can respectfully listen to athesistic viewpoints, i wont be convinced. how could i be? at this point you would call me close-minded. and once again i would say, "oh well."

TK