Ask an atheist—but don't expect any straight answers!

[Guest]

Thanks Steve,
Sorry for hijacking this thread and pulling it way off course.
I (as you recall) can also get aggrivated at things and throw my words out there pretty hastily. I understand that you do stand by the posts you've made. The reason I said name calling is that I read one of your posts as stating he was either pretending to be stupid or he actually was stupid, that was the one that caught me by a little bit of shock. I may have misunderstood your intention though.

I'll stop now and let the posts begin to once again reflect the original intent of the thread. I'm awfully good at throwing things off sometimes .
Sorry again.

God bless,
Aaron

[Guest]

Asimov,

Awaiting your answer to the question, has a miracle ever occurred? Yes or no?


A miracle presupposes the divine. Since I do not believe in the divine, then no.

So you assert that a miracle has never occurred. You have also insisted that the person making an assertion bears the burden of proving the assertion to be true. I await your proof.

You should go right after this. After all, no miracles, no Christianity.

Miracle: An extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs.

Premise:
1. A miracle is an extraordinary event manifesting divien intervention.
2. No claimed miracle has been verified to have happened.

C. Miracles have never occured.

[Guest]

I understand that you get tired of dealing with him not answering your questions, but as smart as you are and as well as you express your views, it seems you could be a little milder sometimes.

Sorry, but where did I not answer his questions?

[Guest]

I can actually prove that God does exist. However the proof requires a drastic measure on the part of the atheist. Any takers?

There, I reposted it, as asked and now here is the test.

Its very simple and works rather well. It would require you to
1. make a decision however and then follow through with it,
or
2. wait until it happens on its own.

Neither is a good option for an atheist because once done there is no turning back. It requires much courage though and few atheists are up to it and seldom ever really test it except for other reasons. Neither option would I reccomend but it is fool proof and the results are immediate. If there is an up side it is that you have the chioce and the method. That's the nice thing about being a creature of God - you do have a choice.

Now if this is just too much for the atheist there is another way and it is fool proof as well and is much easier and rather pleasant. Like the first choice it requires special effort by the atheist but it does result in a happy solution.

which do you choose?

I'm going to assume you are going to tell me to kill myself or let myself die and see what happens afterwards.

Why would I do that?

[Guest]

I understand that you get tired of dealing with him not answering your questions, but as smart as you are and as well as you express your views, it seems you could be a little milder sometimes.

Sorry, but where did I not answer his questions?

It's not that you don't answer them, you seem to treat them as though they were a waste of your time. You don't seem to engage in a real dialogue as far as I can tell. I've not been following real closely though.

[Guest]

I can actually prove that God does exist. However the proof requires a drastic measure on the part of the atheist. Any takers?

There, I reposted it, as asked and now here is the test.

Its very simple and works rather well. It would require you to
1. make a decision however and then follow through with it,
or
2. wait until it happens on its own.

Neither is a good option for an atheist because once done there is no turning back. It requires much courage though and few atheists are up to it and seldom ever really test it except for other reasons. Neither option would I reccomend but it is fool proof and the results are immediate. If there is an up side it is that you have the chioce and the method. That's the nice thing about being a creature of God - you do have a choice.

Now if this is just too much for the atheist there is another way and it is fool proof as well and is much easier and rather pleasant. Like the first choice it requires special effort by the atheist but it does result in a happy solution.

which do you choose?

I'm going to assume you are going to tell me to kill myself or let myself die and see what happens afterwards.

Why would I do that?

I am not telling you to do anything, I am simply pointing out that there is a way to know. You are right that by either killing ones self or by just dying naturally you will not only see what happens, it is also a fact that it would solve nothing for you because of your initial unbelief. You would actually be worse off then before.

On the other hand the second option would be the better choice in that if an unbelieving person comes to the knowledge of God by faith then immediate results become apparant within the life of that person. God, in essense, reveals Himself at that time and this experience is a most acceptable thing.

A rational person chooses the most logical and beneficial choice. One that has immediate and longlasting good results. An unrational person waits to see what happaens or takes his own life.

Which are you?

[Guest]

It's not that you don't answer them, you seem to treat them as though they were a waste of your time. You don't seem to engage in a real dialogue as far as I can tell. I've not been following real closely though.

If they are invalid questions, then they are a waste of my time.

I am not telling you to do anything, I am simply pointing out that there is a way to know. You are right that by either killing ones self or by just dying naturally you will not only see what happens, it is also a fact that it would solve nothing for you because of your initial unbelief. You would actually be worse off then before.

Why would I be worse off? What if by killing myself I awake from a dream and find myself in a paradise?

Which are you?

Like everyone else, I would say that I'm a rational person. I know of no one who revels in claiming their irrationality.

[Guest]

Like everyone else, I would say that I'm a rational person. I know of no one who revels in claiming their irrationality.

By that answer then, the rational thing to do is to not take chances with your life. However I do understand it is not a simple choice. It requires faith and faith does not come cheap. In fact it was paid with a high price. It is also not just an intellectual choice. It is a heart choice. One based on the beginnings of a relationship. But if we make it an intellectual choice only then it has no teeth to hold on to you. All things can be rationalized and this is probably the greatest hurdle to jump. But maybe in time you will jump that hurdle and then the flood gates will open.
Here's hoping for your right choice.

[Guest]

Asimov,

You said:

"2. No claimed miracle has been verified to have happened.

C. Miracles have never occured."

Hmm, two more assertions with no proof. Want to try again?

[Guest]

Asimov,

You said:

"2. No claimed miracle has been verified to have happened.

C. Miracles have never occured."

Hmm, two more assertions with no proof. Want to try again?

You asked.

I gave you the reason why I deny the existence of miracles, there are no verified miracles so I do not believe they exist.