Death of Judas

[Guest]

the visual of judas attempting to strangle himself is indeed comical, until you remember that the scriptures say that satan entered him prior to the betrayal. thus it would not be totally out of line to suggest that judas may have attempted to do this (or the demon within him), and, if true, becomes less comical and more tragic.

TK

[Guest]

Are you expressing your theory, Mort?

Or do you have historical documentation for statements?

I have the original crime report. But its written in Aramaic. 8)

Not my own theory, but seems to have been a very established view going back to antiquity. Also strikes me as the most plausible. Ockham's razor and all that.

[Guest]

i have heard this as well, and i agree that it seems to explain the difference in the scriptures. one potential problem-- i believe acts ch 1 describes judas as falling "headlong." if he was hanging, it seems he would fall "foot" long, that is, if headlong means head first.

TK

[Guest]

1 cor. 15:3-5
If the resurrected Christ was seen of the twelve as verse five states then Judas must have been alive during the appearances of Christ.

John 20:19
19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week,

Luke 24:1, 29
1Now upon the first day of the week,
29for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent.
Luke 24:33 and 36
33And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
There were Eleven Apostles and those that were with them.
John 20:24 gives the Apostle that was missing.
John 20:24
24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
The other eleven were there so Judas had to be living and present.
John 20:26 tells us "26And after eight days again his disciples were within," These are the same as in luke 24, then it tells us this is when he is seen of the twelve.
26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
1 Cor. 15:5
5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
Matt. 27:5
5And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
This is a summary it does not say it happened in quick succession, the same as 1 Cor, 15:5.
Acts 1:1,2 Also shows Judas to be alive
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
He had chosen the Twelve.
Acts 1:3
3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
The whom would be the twelve he had chosen
To rightly divide the rest of Acts 1 it must be understood that eleven of the Apostles were Galileans, Judas was a Judean.
Acts 2:7
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Judas was not there.
Acts 1:9-11
9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Judas was then Gone he seems to have Split and then killed himself the two men addressed the Galileans, the eleven. The usage of Pronouns through verse 10 is certainly no accident, how wonderfully accurate the Word of God is.
Acts 1:18
18Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Choosing a replacment for Judas then followed Shortly. A replacment was not chosen earlier because Judas was still alive.
Now we have the whole story Of Judas Iscariot who betrayed the Son Of God and then regained apparent fellowship with the other eleven after the Crucifixion for he was with them during Christ's several appearances. Finally He was found at the Ascension. Afterwords he departed and hanged himself.
The term "hanged himself" to the western mind means he hanged himself by the neck. This is not the case according to eastern customs.We read of King Saul falling on his own sword, this is the method of hanging for Government or military personnel. The term hanging is used of this method because the victims suspend themselves on pointed objects, and this action causes the bowels to gush out as described in scripture.

Now are you going to continue this comedy? To justify your tradition?

[Guest]

the visual of judas attempting to strangle himself is indeed comical, until you remember that the scriptures say that satan entered him prior to the betrayal. thus it would not be totally out of line to suggest that judas may have attempted to do this (or the demon within him), and, if true, becomes less comical and more tragic.

Or until you remember the scripture that says that Jesus told Judas to betray him...

[Guest]

TK,

I believe "headlong" does not mean "head-first" (as in diving into water), but rather "foreward, with the head foremost," as when one is running, and trips—falling "headlong." I think it means only that Judas' body fell foreward, though, we must assume, feet-first.

[Guest]

G4248
πρηνής
prēnēs
pray-nace'
From G4253; leaning (falling) forward (“prone”), that is, head foremost: - headlong.

fore·most Audio pronunciation of "foremost" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fôrmst, fr-)
adj.

1. First in time or place.
2. Ahead of all others, especially in position or rank; paramount.

Looks like headfirst to me.

[Guest]

Sounds like we need to call CSI: Jerusalem in on this one!

[_SoaringEagle]

From the book Hard Sayings of the Bible:

"A closer look at the two stories highlights gaps in the narrative that raise questions about the events. But the accounts are not necessarily contradictory. Acts is concerned that Judas’s money and name were connected to a field. Whether or not the chief priests actually purchased it, perhaps some time after Judas’s death, would not be a detail of concern to the author. His point was the general knowledge that Judas’s money went to the purchase, which resulted in the title “Field of Blood” being attached to the field. Another possible reason for the name, also a concern of Acts, was that Judas split open and his intestines poured out. Such a defacing of the body, probably with the concomitant result of the corpse being at least partially eaten by vultures and dogs, was horrible in the view of the Jews, for whom proper burial was important. In fact, they even valued forms of execution that did not deface the outside of the body (such as strangulation) over forms that defaced the body (such as stoning, the worst form in their eyes).


"Matthew points out that it was a guilt-motivated suicide, accomplished by the most common means, hanging. Suicide in Jewish literature is most often connected to shame or failure. (So 2 Sam 17:23; compare the other accounts of suicide in Old Testament history, which were normally to avoid a more shameful death.) However, since suicide by hanging was usually accomplished (at least by poorer people) by jumping out of a tree with a rope around one’s neck, it was not unusual (nor is it uncommon in India today) for the body to be ripped open in the process. I hesitate to say that this was exactly what happened, but it is certainly a plausible explanation."


From F.F. Bruce commentary on Acts 1.19:


"But he did not live to enjoy the fruits of his shameful acts, for he fell and sustained a fatal rupture." (his footnote here reads: "The Latin Vulgate harmonizes this account with that of Matt 27.5 by saying that "having hanged himself he burst open")

This last reference to the Latin Vulgate means that this "death by a failed attempt at hanging" was a very early tradition about the event.


Did Judas Die Twice?
by Eric Lyons, M.Min.

Matthew 27:5 and Acts 1:18 cannot be accepted as legitimately contradicting each other if it is possible for both to be true—and it certainly is scientifically and logistically possible for both incidents to have occurred. Consider a brawl in which two men are fighting to the death. The larger man strikes the undersized man in the throat, crushing his larynx. For nearly 60 seconds, the wounded man stumbles around trying to breathe, but to no avail. He then goes limp, falls to the ground, and strikes his head on the cement, having died from asphyxia. When the police come to the scene and ask witnesses what happened, one person will likely declare, “James struck John and killed him.” Another person may say, “John suffocated,” while another might add, “Falling headfirst, John busted his skull on the ground, causing part of his brain to ooze out onto the concrete.” Are the witnesses’ statements contradictory? No. They are supplementary. Likewise, neither of the statements concerning the death of Judas is contradictory. Simply put, one does not exclude the other.

Matthew does not deny that Judas fell and had his entrails gush out, and Luke does not deny that Judas hanged himself. In short, Matthew records the method in which Judas attempted his death. Luke reports the end result.

[Guest]

SE, maybe they were two different fields. Exactly, the Priests purchased the Potters Field, for burial of peasants. The words associated with the accounts of the two fields are completely different.