Can God do all things?

[Guest]

Can God do anything?

Yes!
Job 42:1-2
-Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing....

Jeremiah 32:17
-Ah Lord God! ... there is nothing too hard for thee.

Jeremiah 32:27
-Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for the Lord?;

Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27
-With God all things are possible.

OR

No
God can't do all things
Judges 1:19
-And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Mark 6:5
-And he could there do no mighty work.

Hebrews 6:18
-It was impossible for God to lie.

[Guest]

I believe that God is omnipotent. This means that God has the ability to do anything that it is logically possible to do.

Contradictions, however, are not objects of power. So, for example, to say that God cannot create a stone so large that He can't lift it, is in no way limiting His omnipotence. Rather the concept of an omnipotent being creating a stone so large that he cannot lift it, is a contradiction in terms.

The author of Hebrews did not write that it is impossible for God to lie. Rather he wrote that God is powerless to lie. The reason that God is powerless to lie, is not that God is unable to lie, but rather that it is contrary to His nature to lie.

[Guest]

The reason that God is powerless to lie, is not that God is unable to lie, but rather that it is contrary to His nature to lie.

While I agree with this sentiment, I would go so far as to take it another step. It's impossible for God to lie because whatever He says is true by definition. In other words, it's not so much that God's words conform to reality, but rather, that reality conforms to whatever God says. If God says, "Let there be light"... well then, there it is.

Perry

[Guest]

While I agree with this sentiment, I would go so far as to take it another step. It's impossible for God to lie because whatever He says is true by definition. In other words, it's not so much that God's words conform to reality, but rather, that reality conforms to whatever God says. If God says, "Let there be light"... well then, there it is. [underine mine]

Hi Perry,

I disagree with this. Think about this; If God says "I exist and I do not exist at the same time" could it be "true"?

God is certainly bound in a sense by the laws of logic. Not because He is not omninpotent, but rather because logic reflects His thinking and nature.

Another example would be "could God create another God such as Himself"? No He couldn't because the fact that He has to create said God contradicts that it would be like Himself.

So I am not sure that God merely saying something changes all aspects of reality, becuase some aspects reflect His unchangable nature. I think that logic would be one of those unchangable aspects.


God bless,

[Guest]

God can't do all things
Judges 1:19
-And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Several translation render this "they could not drive..." (NKJV, NIV, NASB, NET). This would have to be because they were afraid, and their fear betrayed a distrust in the Lord's provision. Therefore He did not help them. It doesn't mean that He couldn't because He was powerless, but rather that He "couldn't" violate this principle.

It's like if a child disobeys his parents. The parents might say "now I can't give you any ice cream". Not meaning that they lack the power or resources to give the ice cream, but to do so would be to violate a principle.

He had told them:

Jos 1:6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them.

Mark 6:5
-And he could there do no mighty work

Because of their unbeief:

Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

It's not that He couldn't do anything, because the verse says that He layed hands on, and healed people. Doubtless, these were they who believed. Matthews wording agrees with this:

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

This implies that He did do some miracles.

Again, I don't think He was powerless to do the miracles, just that He required faith in the recipients, and He "could not" violate that principle.

God bless,

[Guest]

I disagree with this. Think about this; If God says "I exist and I do not exist at the same time" could it be "true"?

God hasn't said that, and He doesn't say things that are logically inconsistant. If you're asking, what would happen if God did say something that was logically incosistant, I would have throw the question right back at you by asking, "which would give place, God's word, or logic?"

Here are some things God has said.

Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
Mat 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mat 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mar 4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mat 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Luk 18:43 And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God

Pretty much all of Genesis 1.

As near as I can tell, in all the cases mentioned (and many more besides), reality conformed itself to what God said.

This does not prevent God from saying things that are descriptions of reality as it already is. But I tend to think of God and His word as being more causal than descriptive.

Perry

[Guest]

God hasn't said that, and He doesn't say things that are logically inconsistant. If you're asking, what would happen if God did say something that was logically incosistant, I would have throw the question right back at you by asking, "which would give place, God's word, or logic?"

Hey there bro,

I would say pretty much what you said, that "He wouldn't say that", however, I would also still say that logic would "give place" if He did say it. Because it's a non-sense statement. If He did say "I exist and do not exist at the same time" then reality would be unable to conform to His words.

I'm just trying to show an instance (albeit hypothetical) where God saying something, doesn't make it so.

It's not that He's powerless to do so, it's just that it's impossible (even for God) because it's non-sense. He is capable of doing all that can be done. The scriptures you quoted show that. But He is not doing anything illogical there.

I was responding to the general statement "it's not so much that God's words conform to reality, but rather, that reality conforms to whatever God says."

All of these things are hypothetical musings anyhow. It's just that many Christians seem to think that God's omnipotence means that He can break the rules of logic. Your statement led me to think that maybe you did too. I think that opinion is unsound, because it would require God to act against His (perfectly logical) nature; somehting He wouldn't, and even couldn't do. Perhaps I read you wrong.

God bless!

[Guest]

I would also still say that logic would "give place" if He did say it

Did you mean to say that logic would NOT give place? It seems to me that would be more consistant with the rest of your post.

I don't think we find any examples of God behaving illogically.

However, I believe the way your asserting things is a little over the top of where I would stand on this. The danger is that, there are things that are perfectly illogical from a human standpoint, that make perfect sense from a Godly standpoint.

You may say, "Ah but if we are living in God, then they are perfectly logical to us too."

Maybe. But if you can explain things logically, then where is the faith?

Faith is not logical. It is evidence of something for which there is no logical rational.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

From a logical standpoint, Christanity makes no sense.

Any reasonably intelligent individual can recognize good logic and submit to it's arguments and agree to it.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Human logic turns us away from God.

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

and again

Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

The danger in what you're presenting, as I see it is this:

We are called to follow God even when there is no logical basis for doing so. (It may well be that there is a logical basis from God's perspective, but we just can't see it.)

As I say, faith means following God, even when it doesn't make sense and defys all logic.

Perry

[Guest]

Did you mean to say that logic would NOT give place? It seems to me that would be more consistant with the rest of your post.

Yes, that's what I meant.

I think that where our problem here is, is that you are using the word "logic" differently than me. It seems as if you are saying that something is illogical if "it doesn't make sense", whereas I am using the more standard philisophical meaning.

There is nothing illogical about Christianity, because it breaks none of the rulles of logic. (ex. The rule of non-contradiction).

From a logical standpoint, Christanity makes no sense.

Why is that? What law of logic does it contradict?

Quote:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Human logic turns us away from God.

First of all, this verse isn't speaking of logic.

Secondly, there is no "human logic" and "God's logic". Logic is just logic.

There is nothing secular or sacred in the statement, "it is impossible to exist and not exist at the same time". It is simply a true statement about reality.

All logic is a reflection of the thinking of God. For instance, the rule of non-contradiction is not a convention among men, but a reflection of God's ordered thinking.

Think about it, could God make another God that is like Himself?

Could God exist and not exist at the same time if He wanted to?

Of course not, because it's non-sense. The reason we know it's non-sense is because it's illogical.

The danger in what you're presenting, as I see it is this:

We are called to follow God even when there is no logical basis for doing so. (It may well be that there is a logical basis from God's perspective, but we just can't see it.)

As I say, faith means following God, even when it doesn't make sense and defys all logic.

Amen! Of course we should. But I think that you are misusing the term "logic" here. God wouldn't, and couldn't do anything illogical.

A better way would be to say, "Faith means following God, even when it makes no sense to us". I say this because God will never "defy all logic". (At least not literally-I realize that this is a figure of speech).

That God could become a man, and die and be raised again doesn't make sense to us, necessarilly, but there's nothing "illogical" about it.

[Guest]

I must agree with what Derek has presented about "logic" in the posts above. There is no such thing as "God's logic" versus "man's logic".

To say that God cannot do that which is illogical, in no way limits His omnipotence. For example: "God cannot create a stone so large that He cannot lift it." In no way does this fact suggest that God is not omnipotent. Indeed, if He could create such a stone, He would not be omnipotent. For then there would be something He could not do ---- namely, lift the stone.

So often, in common speech, people use the word "logical" to mean "that which seems reasonable." That is not the meaning of the word.