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_Paidion
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Post by _Paidion » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:27 pm

Asimov wrote:Prove it. Free agentry implies that there is no external influence or restrictions. If there is no reason why a choice is made, then it is randomly made.
Prove your statement --- the one we were both fed in philosophy courses at University.

There are reasons why most of our choices were made. But those reasons were not sufficient causes for those choices. Indeed, if determinism is true, then I could not have chosen otherwise. If I could not have chosen otherwise, then I did not really have a choice at all.

Suppose I decide to purchase a car instead of leasing one. There is a reason for my choice. Purchasing a car costs less money in the long run. However, that fact was not a sufficient cause for my choice. I could have chosen otherwise. If I had done so, that choice would not necessarily have been random. There may have been other reasons for the choice. But those reasons also were not a sufficient cause for my choice.

It all reduces to the fact that the free will agent himself is the cause of his own choice. Philosophers want to restrict causation by saying that every cause is itself caused by other causes and so on infinitely into the past. But I believe that there are many "first causes", being the many free will agents whose choices have no causation outside themselves.

People can make what may be called "random choices", where the ramifications of the choice do not matter. A person may not care whether he takes a cookie with blue icing, or the same type of cookie with red icing. Nevertheless that choice was not uncaused. It was the agent himself who caused it. That's what free will is about.
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Paidion
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"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald

_STEVE7150
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Post by _STEVE7150 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:09 pm

At the atomic and subatomic level, matter behaves differently. Let's take the behaviour of the nucleus of an atom and an electron orbiting around it. Newtonian mechanics predict that the electron will rapidly travel around and eventually collide with the nucleus. This was one of the key problems that helped develop QM.




What keeps the proton intact? The same positive charge that the proton has should cause it to explode yet supposedly the negatively charged electron orbiting around it balances out the charge, but the problem is that the mass of the proton is 1,800 times greater then the electron. So what keeps it intact? If it would'nt stay intact we would have no universe, the bible answers that question by saying that God maintains the universe but what would your answer be?
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