Questioning Evolution

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:57 pm

How these forces came about is a good question, but appealing to God is no more useful than appealing to my cat.

Laws are descriptions of how we observe the universe to work

Something greater then the laws created them so you must have some cat. And the laws exist regardless of what we call them, regardless of whether we observe them.
And i did read your response but one of those laws , 2nd law of thermodynamics , says that things decay which is the same thing as order breaking down into disorder or chaos therefore "laws" can not appear out of thin air, it does'nt make sense.

Post by **_Asimov** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:36 am

STEVE7150 wrote: Something greater then the laws created them so you must have some cat.

Right, and something greater than what created those laws created them. It's turtles all the way down.

And the laws exist regardless of what we call them, regardless of whether we observe them.
And i did read your response but one of those laws , 2nd law of thermodynamics , says that things decay which is the same thing as order breaking down into disorder or chaos therefore "laws" can not appear out of thin air, it does'nt make sense.

You didn't read my response, as you obviously have no understanding of what is being said.

The laws didn't appear out of thin air, it is not even theorized that this occured. As the universe is denser and hotter, the fundamental forces of the universe break down. That is why physicists are theorizing that the laws were unified into one single force and then separated into their individual forces.

This is entirely consistent with the 2LoT.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:12 am

You didn't read my response, as you obviously have no understanding of what is being said.

The laws didn't appear out of thin air, it is not even theorized that this occured. As the universe is denser and hotter, the fundamental forces of the universe break down. That is why physicists are theorizing that the laws were unified into one single force and then separated into their individual forces.

This is entirely consistent with the 2LoT.

OK since i lost track of your original response and since you claim i have "no understanding" of what is being said , would you be kind enough to repeat , what is being said?
These laws which are highly complex and structured and you agreed did not come out of thin air , but i did not see where you explained how they came about?
By order not coming out of disorder, i was referring to the initial creation of the universe, where did the materials come from, where did the precise order in the universe come from, where did life come from?
Yes the currect universe probably is decaying and dying as all material things have a finite period of existence.

Post by **_Asimov** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:18 pm

STEVE7150 wrote: These laws which are highly complex and structured and you agreed did not come out of thin air , but i did not see where you explained how they came about?

The fundamental forces broke apart from a unified state after the Big Bang occured, as theorized. So, they did not come out of thin air, they are the disorder coming from order, as a result of entropy.

By order not coming out of disorder, i was referring to the initial creation of the universe, where did the materials come from, where did the precise order in the universe come from, where did life come from?

The initial universe was the most highly ordered state that the universe could be in. Everything that resulted from it is a lower state of order.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:10 pm

The fundamental forces broke apart from a unified state after the Big Bang occured, as theorized. So, they did not come out of thin air, they are the disorder coming from order, as a result of entropy.

From a unified state? How on earth could you make a difinitive statement like that?
OK , fine it came from a unified state so where did the unified state come from? Why did it explode with such unimaginable force? Why did material things just coincidently go to places which allowed the universe to function with such precision? Where did life come from?
So the explosion of this so called unified state resulted in the highest degree of order imaginable with the creation of the universe.

Post by **_JC** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 am

Steve, this is one of the things that led Anthony Flew to embrace Deism. He could no longer buy into the creation story of atheism. Skeptics, when confronted with this argument, often jump into theoritical physics and preach it as though it were certainty. It's building your house on shifting sand. As long as your explanation isn't "God made everything" then it will probably be accepted at some point or another... no matter how implausable your theory. Still, to me, the most reasonable explanation is theistic design and causation. It works philisophically and is discernable through the sciences, though not concretely.

Post by **_Asimov** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:49 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:The fundamental forces broke apart from a unified state after the Big Bang occured, as theorized. So, they did not come out of thin air, they are the disorder coming from order, as a result of entropy.

From a unified state? How on earth could you make a difinitive statement like that?

Who said it was definitive, Steve?

OK , fine it came from a unified state so where did the unified state come from?

No idea. Where did God come from?

Why did it explode with such unimaginable force?

Wasn't an explosion. It was an accelerated expansion of space.

Why did material things just coincidently go to places which allowed the universe to function with such precision?

Another good question.

Where did life come from?

Another good question.

So the explosion of this so called unified state resulted in the highest degree of order imaginable with the creation of the universe.

No.

Here's an introduction to general Big Bang Cosmology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:37 pm

Steve, this is one of the things that led Anthony Flew to embrace Deism. He could no longer buy into the creation story of atheism

Hi JC, My wife and daughter bought a cute white poodle about 7 yrs ago but of course i was ordered to walk it. As i walked it at night i started looking up at the stars and it just struck me that "someone" created all this and that led me to being open that perhaps God had a plan for mankind. Atheism at least to me has no answers and is a strange cynical type of view. That's not to say atheists can't be as decent as anyone else but this view of life is just denying what is obvious IMO.

Post by **_Asimov** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:30 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:Steve, this is one of the things that led Anthony Flew to embrace Deism. He could no longer buy into the creation story of atheism

Hi JC, My wife and daughter bought a cute white poodle about 7 yrs ago but of course i was ordered to walk it. As i walked it at night i started looking up at the stars and it just struck me that "someone" created all this and that led me to being open that perhaps God had a plan for mankind. Atheism at least to me has no answers and is a strange cynical type of view. That's not to say atheists can't be as decent as anyone else but this view of life is just denying what is obvious IMO.

I have no definitive 100% answers, no, but so what? It strikes me as oddly insecure to think that one must have absolute confidence in the truth of anything, when we can't even define cogently what knowledge is!

Anyways, you might have answers, but that doesn't mean they are the right ones.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:00 pm

I have no definitive 100% answers, no, but so what? It strikes me as oddly insecure to think that one must have absolute confidence in the truth of anything, when we can't even define cogently what knowledge is!

OK but i never said we "must have" confidence in truth, i just said i do have confidence in truth as revealed by Jesus. But one thing we can agree on is that we have free will and therefore we each choose our view of life.