Did David sin only against God?

[_Paidion]

I'm sorry, Rae. I had a senior moment. I had you confused with Sue. Looks like I'm going to be 70 on Tuesday, though I realize that's no excuse.

And yes, God has commanded one thing and "set a different standard tomorrow", namely Sabbath observance. Regarding relations with our fellow man, an "eye for an eye" was once the standard, while under Messiah's reign revenge is forbidden.

Giving instructions and setting moral standards are quite different things.
The Sabbath instruction was not given to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. Never given before Moses. As for the "eye for an eye" command, that was not a standard of morality, but a tempering of the inclination of the Hebrews to take revenge by doing even more than was done to themselves, that is "two eyes for an eye". But Jesus instructed his followers as to what was the real heart of God in the matter ---- non-resistance.

It is interesting that Jesus didn't indicate that the "eye for an eye" command was even that of the Father's. He said:

Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’

It seems to me that there is a wide variety of opinions as to what sin actually is. Some limit sin to sexual immorality. Others limit it to activities such as smoking, drinking, attending R-rated movies, or gambling. Some are blind to the sins by which we wound other people.

Some think that it is impossible for a Christian to go for a single day, or even an hour without sinning. One the other hand, I encountered one woman who claimed she had never sinned for more than 40 years.

As a young person, I had some problems with anger. I was helped by keeping in mind the verse which states "The anger of man does not work the righteousness of God". Yet, anger per se cannot be sin, for God gets angry ---- and we also have the verse, "Be angry and sin not."

There are a number of different Greek words which have been translated as "sin", and they do not all have the same meaning. Here are the 8 which I have discovered in the New Testament. The Greek word is in red, and a literal translation in blue.

1. paraptōma FALLING ASIDE, a false step, a blunder. This seems to be an unintentional act. This is hardly worthy of being called a "sin". Yet some people will hold your blunders against you. Jesus said that if you do not forgive others their blunders, neither will you Father forgive you.

2. agnoāma NO KNOWLEDGE . Even under human law, it is said, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". Yet, one who has no knowledge of the right thing to do, does not seem as culpable as one who does. Jesus said in his parable that the servant who did things worthy of a beating, but did not know his master's will would receive a light beating, whereas the one who did the same things, but did know his masters will, would receive a heavy beating.

3. hamartia MISSING THE MARK. This was the original meaning, where one aims at righteousness but fails. But its later meaning included wrongdoing of all kinds.

4. parabasis STEPPING BEYOND, transgression This seems to be a case of knowing the law of God, but deliberately going beyond the limits of that law. It seems to me that this one would correspond to that servant who "knew his master's will but still did things worthy of a beating."

5. anomia LAWLESSNESS
The lawless person seems to be a state of constant sin. There are people who criticize those who believe in following Jesus' teaching in the Sermon on the Mount as "legalists", believing we are "depending on works" for our salvation.

6. paranomia BEYOND THE LAW
Those who practise paranomia think that they are "above the law", that the law does not apply to them because they themselves are so wise that it is unnecessary for them to obey the law. It may be necessary for others, but they can do the right thing without being "legalists".

7. asebia NO REVERENCE
Having no reverence for God and His servants, using Jesus' name in a foul way, blaspheming God, and mocking the things of God, are practices which give a disciple of Christ a sick feeling inside. A disciple is greatly repulsed by such acts. Yet, many who engage in these practices as a way of life, have repented and become dedicated disciples.

8. parakoā BEYOND HEARING Unwillingness to listen. This is a most serious condition. If people refuse to listen to the truth proclaimed by any of God's servants, there is no hope for them as long as they continue to do so.

If any one is interested in a partial list of scriptures which use these different words, I could post it.

[karenstricycle]

Paidion,

You wrote:

Giving instructions and setting moral standards are quite different things.

Are you saying the precepts in The Law were merely "instructions" and failure to obey was not sin? Please explain.

And:

The Sabbath instruction was not given to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob. Never given before Moses.

What, may I ask, has this to do with whether failure to keep the Sabbath was sin?

And:

As for the "eye for an eye" command, that was not a standard of morality, but a tempering of the inclination of the Hebrews to take revenge by doing even more than was done to themselves, that is "two eyes for an eye". But Jesus instructed his followers as to what was the real heart of God in the matter ---- non-resistance.

Is it your contention that a person, under The Law, who took revenge without exceeding an "eye for eye" was committing sin?

And:

It is interesting that Jesus didn't indicate that the "eye for an eye" command was even that of the Father's. He said:

Matthew 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’

Do you think that when Moses gave the command regarding revenge he just made it up? Jesus also, in the same sermon, similarly referrenced other sayings which came directly from the Ten Commandments:


Matthew 5:21
21. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

Matthew 5:27
27. You have heard it said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery...'


And:

It seems to me that there is a wide variety of opinions as to what sin actually is.

This is true. And it also explains how some in the "perfectionist" camp have deluded themselves into thinking they no longer sin. They redefine their sins as mere "mistakes".

And:

Some think that it is impossible for a Christian to go for a single day, or even an hour without sinning. One the other hand, I encountered one woman who claimed she had never sinned for more than 40 years.

I must say I am closer to the view of the former than the latter. I think there is help for the woman. Perhaps she should prayerfully consider:

James 2:10
10. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

James 3:2
2. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.


I think I am beginning to undestand your method and how you have determined in your mind that God did not command the blood sacrifices of the old covenant.

[Guest]

Paidion, I would be interesed in this list, if it isn't too much trouble to post it.

It's quite the complement, Rae - every time a woman says something pretty smart, Paidion thinks it's you.

Michelle, thank you, what a lovely complement to both of us!

Rae, I hope you will wade in, if you have time.
And again, what a lovely baby. (At present babies affect me even more than usually, my daughter is expecting a baby in about a week - my first grandchild).

[karenstricycle]

Sue,

Grandchildren are great! Should have had them first!

[Guest]

And again, what a lovely baby. (At present babies affect me even more than usually, my daughter is expecting a baby in about a week - my first grandchild).

Congratulations!!! How exciting! Does she live close to you?

Rae, I hope you will wade in, if you have time.

Oh no! I waded in on the leadership thread and all I got were sarcastic comments!

[_Paidion]

Sue, posting that list will be my next project.

Homer, I anticipated most of your questions. It will take quite a bit of exchange to clarify my position and answer your questions. I intend to start a new thread which may have a title such as, "Temporary commands to temper man's sinful tendencies."

When you see this thread, you might want to post your questions there, and I'll begin to answer them to the best of my ability. My answers may not satisfy you, but at least you might understand me better.

[karenstricycle]

Rae,

I apologize if you took this comment of mine as sarcastic. It was meant to be humorous:

If they work hard enough, can they all become males? That doesn't seem very desirable to me. (Sorry, had to say that.) (Ducking)

I am not easily offended (sensitive), and I am also probably not as sensitive as I should be regarding how my remarks offend others. I hope you will not be discouraged from speaking your mind.

God bless, Homer

[Guest]

Rae,

I apologize also if any of my comments came off sarcastically.

I thought you made some good points.

[Guest]

No no... I am not offended at all. I thought the wink would convey the jokingness (I don't think that's a word) of my comment, but I guess that's the only drawback with forums.

I was hoping for more feedback, but no, definitely not offended. I found both of your comments humorous.

And generally, very little would discourage me from voicing my thoughts.

[_Paidion]

Various Greek words for "sin", their meanings and some references

Notes:
1. The numbers in brackets before each word indicates the number of occurences in the Bible. Some references are from the Apocrypha.

2. The word in red is the Greek word; the word(s) in blue is the literal meaning. Words in black are further explanations.



[1] agnoāma — no knowledge, error due to not knowing

Heb 9:7 but into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood which he offers for himself and for the errors of the people.

1Es 9:20 They pledged themselves to put away their wives, and to give rams in expiation of their error.

[151] hamartia — missing the mark and thus used in early Greek for "mistake". In New
Testament times, its use was broadened to include any wrongdoing.

Mt 1:21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.

Ac 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forsaking of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ac 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.
[Ananias spoke these words to Paul after Paul had given his testimony. First Paul's sight was restored to him. Then Ananias told him that God had chosen him to know His will, and to be a witness to all people.]

Mr 1:4 John the baptizer appeared in the desert, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forsaking of sins.

Ro 6:4-6
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.

1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

1Jo 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Heb 10:26,27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

[13] anomia — lawlessness

Ro 6:19 For just as you once yielded your members to uncleaness and to greater and greater lawlessness, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification.

2Co 6:14 Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

2Th 2:7 For the secret of lawlessness is already at work; only there is the restraining one just now until it is out of the way.

Tit 2:14 ...who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond thy comrades."

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their injustices (adikia), and I will remember their sins (hamartia) no more."

Heb 10:17 I will remember their sins (hamartia) and their lawlessnesses no more."

1Jo 3:4 Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

[1] paranomia — beyond the law, breach of the law

2 Pet 2:15,16
Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.

[6] asebia — no reverance, irreverance

Ro 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all irreveance and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men, training us to renounce irreverance and worldly passions, and to live sober, upright, and pious lives in this world...

[3] parakoā — beyond hearing, unwillingness to listen

Ro 5:19 Then as through the unwillingness to listen of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, so also through the listening of the one man, the many will be constituted righteous.

2Co 10:6 ...in readiness having to correct every unwillingness to listen, whenever is fulfilled in you a willingness to listen.

[7] parabasis — stepping beyond, transgression

Ro 2:23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by transgressing the law?

Ro 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Notice that this does not say that where there is no law there is no sin (hamartia) but there is no transgression(parabasis). There must be a law or rule before you can step beyond or transgress anything.

Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

[20] paraptōma — falling beside, a false step, a blunder

Matt 6:14,15 For if you forgive people their blunders, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive people their blunders, neither will your Father forgive your blunders.

Ro 11:12 Now if their blunder means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!