All those starving children - how can there be a loving God?

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Ian
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All those starving children - how can there be a loving God?

Post by Ian » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:49 am

It`s a common objection to Christian belief, and I`m sure you`ve heard it voiced before. So I thought this article might help:

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29007758

God only tolerated us eating animals it seems to me. He would have preferred us to be vegetarians, yes? In which case there would have been enough to go around. Is that a fair assumption?

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Paidion
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by Paidion » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:34 pm

I agree that less meat should be eaten, even in order to be healthier in wealthier countries. But the starving children live in areas where they also get insufficient edible plant products.

Why God doesn't prevent starvation, dying from thirst, or from cruelty, natural disasters, etc., is, of course, the biggest theological problem of the ages, the problem of evil. It has been debated for centuries. I don't think anyone has come up with a complete solution yet.

But i think a partial solution lies in the fact that God created man with free will (the ability to choose). For God to prevent all disasters would require that he force many people to act compassionably rather than only selfishly. But God has opted NOT to force people (He has no interest in having a world of robots), but rather He chooses not to intervene but to watch people destroy themselves ... and weep. He patiently waits for people to change and make decisions of love. He has given his only-begotten Son to die for this very purpose.

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Ian
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by Ian » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:47 am

Thanks for your reply Paidion.

This morning, on my way to pick up the first child on my bus round, I saw two farmyard sheep locked head-to-head in mortal combat. I thought of the irony - this issue is so important to them, and yet some time this year both will end up on someone`s dinner plate somewhere! There`s a metaphor in that, I thought.

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jriccitelli
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by jriccitelli » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:08 am

I agree with you both. I love animals and food too.
I would tell them there is plenty of food around us, we just don't like leaves and grass.
I wonder if the blessing/curse was that food tastes good (the food was desirable, i.e. Gen3), if we did not have heightened taste buds we would be like animals and be content eating leaves, roots, rodents and all the stuff animals eat, all of which could be grown in greater numbers if taste wasn't so important to us. Is our heightened ability to enjoy the taste of food, an obstacle to having enough?

Religious Veggans think we have a greater responsibility to not eat meat, because of our bigger brains, but i tell them thats how we got the bigger brain :? (and avoided being eaten by other animals, what do you do with the dead attacking animal, but eat it?). The animal kingdom is very violent, i would rather not live by the tooth and claw (except for house cats, at least animals don't often torture other animals). Granted all that, we sin, and God said the penalty would be to have to work hard in order to grow plants, animals don't. (I do believe most food shortages are do to weather, but corruption, politics, and often sin are at fault)

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TheEditor
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by TheEditor » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:24 am

As far as the "Edenic curse", consider he following:

And La′mech lived on for a hundred and eighty-two years. Then he became father to a son. And he proceeded to call his name Noah, saying: “This one will bring us comfort from our work and from the pain of our hands resulting from the ground which Jehovah has cursed.” (Genesis 5:28-29)
And Jehovah began to smell a restful odor, and so Jehovah said in his heart: “Never again shall I call down evil upon the ground on man’s account, because the inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up; and never again shall I deal every living thing a blow just as I have done. (Genesis 8:21)

“Then Lot looked out, and saw that the whole basin of the Jordan was well watered everywhere like the LORD’S own garden.”

Was the Jordan basin being compared to the garden of Eden?

“Reaching the valley of Eshcol, they cut a branch from there with a single cluster of grapes, and it took two of them to carry it on a stretcher, along with some pomegranates and some figs.” (Numbers 13:23) The spies reported they found that “It surely does flow with milk and honey.” (Num. 13:27, AT) Was the land still cursed? I think this may be a traditional view that doesn't have validity. But that's just my opinion.

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by jriccitelli » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:45 am

i just worked on my garden yesterday, yes it is still cursed. Ants ate all the corn, the beans strangled the tomatoes to death, I think the sun burned up the pumpkins, the cherries never showed up, some bug attacked the peaches, should i go on?

I always love the garden, because it gives us a 'taste' of what it will be like 'someday', but the curse is not lifted yet, the earth groans, as i will have sweat on my brow soon today.

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Ian
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by Ian » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:37 pm

We like to post a little complaint to God online that someone somewhere has a bad time of it
I take it that`s directed at me, based on my titling of the post. If you`d read the content properly you would have noted that I was trying to stick up for God not complain about him.

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TheEditor
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by TheEditor » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:39 pm

Hi Ian,

I didn't see the quoted comment that you responded to? Who wrote it?

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

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Ian
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by Ian » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:46 pm

Dizerner deleted his post Brenden.

I agreed with what he otherwise wrote though.

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dizerner
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Re: All those starving children - how can there be a loving

Post by dizerner » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:14 pm

Ian wrote:
We like to post a little complaint to God online that someone somewhere has a bad time of it
I take it that`s directed at me, based on my titling of the post. If you`d read the content properly you would have noted that I was trying to stick up for God not complain about him.
I'm sorry I actually did not mean to direct this at you. I realize your question was a practical one. When I thought about how it sounded I decided to delete the post.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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