I find this hard to believe. . .

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:04 am

This has bothered me for some time so I want some counsel from my fellow Christians. The apostles spent three and a half years with him, yet even at the end of his ministry they seemed to know very little. An example of this is their petty behavior and jealousy toward one another even at the end of his ministry, like arguing about who was the greatest. Another example is when Peter tried to decapitate the temple guard that was arresting Jesus. After living for 3.5 years with the Prince of Peace did he still not understand that we are to love our enemies? Perhaps Jesus simply didn't say much to them in private. But it's hard to fathom how the apostles could spend nearly every moment with the man for most of his ministry and then act so contrary to his teachings at times. Is it just human nature?

Thanks!

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:04 pm

They probably were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit and perhaps they understood who Jesus was by observing the miracles he performed more then a heart felt surrender to him. Peter understood because of a special revelation given to him from God but maybe it was mostly a head knowledge. Also the jewish understanding of Messiah was that he would set up an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem and apprentely that was their expectation because they never really believed He had to be crucified and rise again as only John was present at his cruxifiction.

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:05 pm

I think you're onto something because it seems like they were blinded or something. Almost as if the words Jesus spoke to them were veiled in a sense and they only really understood after Pentacost when the Holy Spirit came and dwelt with the church. I know that the apostles must've had a very Jewish view of the Messiah but after three years of living with Jesus, one would think they'd be more informed. It's easy for me to say this because I've read the New Testament and they hadn't, but wouldn't that one-on-one time be more educational?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:55 pm

Well Jesus said to them " I have many other things to tell you but you can not bear it yet" so i suppose even if He would have disclosed more info they were'nt capable of processing it until they actually saw Him after the resurrection and after the Pentacost.

Post by **_livingink** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:26 pm

Also consider that the 12 may well have been descendants of the returned exiles from the Babylonian captivity. They saw themselves as the netzer/Natzoreans or "the shoot" of the root of Jesse. They may have considered themselves as the true Jewish nation as opposed to such groups as the Sadducees who did not see the Messiah in scripture nor did they want one in practice. We know that there was a strong understanding of this concept of the netzer among the 12 and such groups as the Zealots were represented among them. The Zealots at times advocated military revolt and also refused to pay taxes to a human king installed by the Roman government. So, consider this overall mindset to be familiar to the 12.

Consider also the idea that Jesus would be known as a Nazarene. Some historians say that the term is more accurately Natzorean. So, the Messiah would be known as a Natzorean or a shoot from the root of Jesse. David was a son of Jesse. The king would be a descendant of David. Jesus was a decendant of David. Peter recognized Jesus as Messiah. So, in the way that the 12 may have understood this line of reasoning, Jesus was the Netzer/Messiah/son of David/rightful king. There are much better historians who could explain this idea to you than I can and possibly someone on this forum is more familiar with the concept. I welcome all corrections but hope that this information may spur you on to further study.