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Re: Who do you say Jesus is?
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:54 am
by kaufmannphillips
Hello, Karen,
The LDS are mono theistic, but also believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Him alone being, the Son of the One true living God. The Father. Monotheistic. One God.
We also believe that Jesus Christ was not only with God the Father from the beginning, but that Jesus Christ was the very JHVH (Jehovah), Lord of the Jew, in the Old ttestament.
I believe that Abraham was considered a "friend" even, not only to JHVH, but to God the Father as well.
Both the "divinity" of the man, Jesus Christ, and the Pre-mortal/Post-mortal JHVH matters to us.
I do not understand.
If the scripture says that "
JHVH (Jehovah)" is a god, and you say that this god is the same as Jesus - and you say that the Father is G-d - how is this not two gods?
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
by Jill
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Re: Who do you say Jesus is?
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:41 pm
by kaufmannphillips
karenprtlnd wrote:
I am saying the Jehovah is LORD, Lord God to the Jew of then. ...
God the Father is the Father of JHVH. The God of JHVH. The first born of the Father. Not yet the man to be named Jesus, and also yet to be the first fruits of those that slept.
If raised, Is Moses now a god? Would Moses be greater than JHVH if so? No.
One God. And that One God is God the Father. The Father in Heaven of Jesus, he speaks to us of. One God. Mono. God The Father.
There are two gods here. One is the father of the other, but that is not unusual in polytheistic constructs. To be clear, "
JHVH (Jehovah)" and G-d the Father are not the same being in your thought, right? And your bible says that "
JHVH (Jehovah)" is a god and that G-d the Father is a god? One god and another god means two gods.
karenprtlnd wrote:
Daniel knows of the Father and his Son, with woolie white hair on a throne with fire wheels.
Which verses here are you thinking of, regarding the "Son"?
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:48 pm
by Jill
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Re: Who do you say Jesus is?
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:29 pm
by kaufmannphillips
karenprtlnd wrote:
In JSHC sec 132, that there are many "gods", (lower case "g") as Abraham, Moses, Elijah, etc. Is this what you are refering to? There is just One eternal God, and that is the God, the very Father in Heaven of Jesus Christ.
There are no lower-case letters in Hebrew or Aramaic, and there were no lower-case letters in Greek at the time the New Testament was written. Gods is gods, in biblical language.
Trinitarians are monotheists - heretical, idolatrous monotheists, but monotheists - because they believe in a single god. But "many gods" is not monotheism.
Re: Who do you say Jesus is?
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:47 pm
by Jason
Trinitarians are monotheists - heretical, idolatrous monotheists, but monotheists - because they believe in a single god. But "many gods" is not monotheism.
Emmet, I agree with the statement "Trinitarians are monotheists" but I'm surprised you would say such a a thing, even with the clever parenthetical. Have your views changed since we discussed this subject eons ago? I seem to recall you being in the "Trinitarians are closet Polytheists" camp. What sayeth ye?
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:35 pm
by Jill
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Re: Who do you say Jesus is?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:57 am
by kaufmannphillips
kaufmannphillips wrote:
Trinitarians are monotheists - heretical, idolatrous monotheists, but monotheists - because they believe in a single god. But "many gods" is not monotheism.
Jason wrote:
Emmet, I agree with the statement "Trinitarians are monotheists" but I'm surprised you would say such a a thing, even with the clever parenthetical. Have your views changed since we discussed this subject eons ago? I seem to recall you being in the "Trinitarians are closet Polytheists" camp. What sayeth ye?
Could you reference my previous comment?
Some "trinitarians" might not be monotheists, if their trinitarian theology is "unorthodox" - and many Christians do have "unorthodox" ideas about the Trinity, whether they are aware of it or not.
Re: Who do you say Jesus is?
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:37 am
by Jason
Could you reference my previous comment?
Some "trinitarians" might not be monotheists, if their trinitarian theology is "unorthodox" - and many Christians do have "unorthodox" ideas about the Trinity, whether they are aware of it or not.
Unorthodox in the sense of not agreeing with the earliest Christian councils? The Bible nowhere gives us an orthodoxy of Trinitarian doctrine.
[This portion of the text has been removed as this issue was already addressed by RND on Page 3 of this discussion]
Emmet, you mentioned that you hold Genesis as Canonical but not Dueteronomy. I'm wondering what your basis is for determining Canonical inclusion.
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:06 pm
by Jill
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