Brian McLaren

Post by **_mikenatt** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:49 pm

Can anyone confirm or deny whether Brian McLaren believes in universalism? If you listen to the 2 bleeding purple podcasts on the following web site, he appears to be a universalist in substance, if not in name. However, he is far more subtle about his beliefs than Carlton Pearson. He appears to limit his definition of "hell" to the suffering which the Jews faced during the fall of Jerusalem. He also minimizes the work of Christ as the sacrificial atonement for sin. Both of these are serious departures from orthodoxy! Despite some of the "good" points he makes about the Kingdom Of God in "The Secret Message Of Jesus", I would consider him to be in serious error.

http://www.brianmclaren.net/articles.html

Post by **_Blind Beggar** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:37 pm

It is hard to say what Brian believes on certain specific subjects because he keeps it close to the vest, but he is the founder of Cedar Ridge Community Church which has the following in their statement of beliefs:

About Salvation

We believe that all people are created with dignity and value in the image of God, to live in a vital relationship with God. However, through our sin (failing to live by God´s moral standards), we break our intended relationship with God and we experience the destructive consequences of that broken relationship, spiritually and socially, in this life and beyond. However, God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to rescue us from those consequences and to restore our broken relationships with God and others, through Christ´s death on the cross, a perfect act of redemption for each of us. Salvation comes to people on the basis of God´s grace through their faith in Jesus alone. They receive the free gift of forgiveness and are spiritually reborn through repenting of their sin and believing in Jesus Christ. Good works and a holy life, although totally unable to save anyone, are the natural product of repentant, believing people.

Post by **_JC** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:30 pm

Blind Beggar, I think mikenatt was addressing whether or not Brian holds a belief in universal restoration and not the denominational belief that all paths lead to the same God. The view that unbelievers will recieve punishment but not eternal punishment is a highly debatable issue and not one of orthodoxy. I believe the early Alexandrian church held this view, though Rome and Ephesus did not.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:58 pm

The doctrine of universal restoration goes back at least as far as Origen in the early 200's. Many orthodox Christians have held this doctrine throughout history. Perhaps one of the greatest proponents of it in recent times is Dr. Thomas B. Thayer, who wrote extensively on the topic in the late 1800's
( http://www.abcog.org/thayer.htm ).

McLaren wrestles with the question (through the conversations of fictional characters) in his book "The Last Word, and the Word After That". Here's an excerpt: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/173/story_17371_1.html

Post by **_schoel** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:20 pm

I would suggest that before forming an opinion on Brian McLaren, one should read some of his works.

I'm currently reading through his trilogy comprised of:
1) A New Kind of Christian: A Tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey
2) The Story We Find Ourselves In: Further Adventures of a New Kind of Christian
3) The Last Word and the Word after That: A Tale of Faith, Doubt, and a New Kind of Christianity

...and I'm almost finished with the second book. While there are ideas that I'm not sure I agree with, I haven't found anything that would lead someone away from Jesus. I have found many ways of looking at life and history that have caused me to reconsider a belief (or an assumption). I would describe the books as challenging and refreshing, especially if you've been in the American church for a while.

Anyone else read these books?
If so, what did you think?

Dave

Post by **_mikenatt** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:07 pm

I have read "The Secret Message Of Jesus", and I found it to be a very good book. I also believe that his intent to reach out to the post-modern generation using culturally appropriate methods is a good thing as well. My only concern about his message (and it is a big concern!), is that he advocates universalism, and minimizes the importance of Christ's atonement. Check out his interviews cited in the URL from my original post; this message comes through loud and clear.

Post by **_JC** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:04 pm

This quote from Brian really struck me as something more people in the church need to hear:

A good start would be for us to talk less about being Christians and more about being followers of Jesus. If we were to actually live the way Jesus taught us to live, it would humble us. We can be very proud if we understand the right doctrines and have certain opinions. But when we deal with the very nitty-gritty of living the way Jesus taught us, none of us can act very proud. We would start taking seriously the things Jesus said about caring for the poor. If we see our neighbor in need, we go and do what we can to help. The most important thing is that we stop being content as members of the Christian religion and actually aspire to start living in the way of Jesus.