Joel Osteen is at it again...

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:43 pm

Here is a transcript of an interview that is recent, that took place on Fox news.

Osteen demonstrates once again that he is nothing more than a motivational speaker. Below are his comments on Mormonism.

WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I've got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian?

OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that's what I believe, so, you know, I'm not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are.

And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me, and I don't think he would — anything would stop me from voting for him if that's what I felt like.

WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up in those theological issues?

OSTEEN: I probably don't get hung up in them because I haven't really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don't know.

I certainly can't say that I agree with everything that I've heard about it, but from what I've heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that's a common bond.

I know that I harp a lot on this guy, but I am so taken back when folks I know act as if he is a "man of God". I believe him to be the Norman Vincent Peale of our generation. That is to say, new age philosophies dressed in Christian garb.

Post by **_Allyn** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:03 pm

I caught that on FOX as well. I thought his response to mormonism was really lame for the position he is in. To say that simply because Mormons say Jesus is Lord and Savior he cannot judge their views is plain stupid.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:37 pm

Allyn wrote:I caught that on FOX as well. I thought his response to mormonism was really lame for the position he is in. To say that simply because Mormons say Jesus is Lord and Savior he cannot judge their views is plain stupid.

But to say anything other than that would put him in a bad position, a position that would cost him the big bucks.

Post by **_Allyn** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:21 pm

No doubt about that, Brody. Don't you wonder why Christians would rather avoid putting themselves in compromising positions with men and not be so concerned with doing it before God?

On another note, but still in line with Mormonism, which believe their men become kings and gods, isn't it true that its more glorious for God to become human then for men to become gods?

MerryChristmas

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 pm

No doubt about that, Brody. Don't you wonder why Christians would rather avoid putting themselves in compromising positions with men and not be so concerned with doing it before God?

Ive often wondered about such, and the conclusion that I have come to is this: 1.) The person who does such has either seared his conscience so much that it doesn't really matter anymore,2.) or the person never really loved the truth to begin with.

On another note, but still in line with Mormonism, which believe their men become kings and gods, isn't it true that its more glorious for God to become human then for men to become gods?

Amen. I can say for certain that I am no god, nor will I ever be one. I will stand in awe of the God of the universe, and worship Him. Although we Christians have become "partakers of the divine nature", that in no way implies that I will someday be worshiped and such as that.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:33 am

Amen. I can say for certain that I am no god, nor will I ever be one. I will stand in awe of the God of the universe, and worship Him. Although we Christians have become "partakers of the divine nature", that in no way implies that I will someday be worshiped and such as that.

I don't think the mormon church actively teaches this although it may be in their book of mormon but individual mormons may not even be aware of this.
Also how far shall we take this? "Word of Faith" followers are taught to confess their prosperity and name it and claim it, in a way becoming a "little god" so are they Christians?
Roman Catholic are saved by Christ but also by the Holy Roman Catholic Church therefore Christ really can not be their Lord because they have another savior, so are they Christians?
The Church of Christ teaches you can only be saved by baptism in their church, so are they Christians?
I could go on and on but i think letting God judge men's hearts is not such a bad answer.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:41 pm

I don't think the mormon church actively teaches this although it may be in their book of mormon but individual mormons may not even be aware of this.

Hey Brother,

The official teaching of the church is that men can indeed become gods of there own planets. Maybe there are some Mormons who are not aware of this teaching because they ain't listening to their teachers, but it is taught.

Also how far shall we take this? "Word of Faith" followers are taught to confess their prosperity and name it and claim it, in a way becoming a "little god" so are they Christians?

I agree that many wof'ers confess many silly things, but there theology of who Christ and God are, is at least orthodox, or falls within the pail of orthodoxy. Mormons however do not worship the same God Christians do. Their god is a created being who has a god who has a god...ETC.. The Mormon Christ is not the one the bible tells of, but is another Christ who brings another gospel.

Roman Catholic are saved by Christ but also by the Holy Roman Catholic Church therefore Christ really can not be their Lord because they have another savior, so are they Christians?

Again, I have serious disagreements with the RC church, but there view of who God is correct.

The Church of Christ teaches you can only be saved by baptism in their church, so are they Christians?

See above.

I could go on and on but i think letting God judge men's hearts is not such a bad answer.

But I ask you, where do you draw the line? When does something become "another Christ " or "another gospel".

Could you in good conscience tell a Mormon "You and I worship the same Christ?" The popular attitude of many Christians seems to be "can we all just get along"?..But I ask, "At what cost?"

Don't get me wrong, I am all for peace with all men and charity, but where do we draw the lines? I can respect the Mormon who comes to my door, but I can also disagree with him and tell him what the bible says.

Sorry for the rant.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:55 pm

Here are some excerpts from a famous sermon given by Joseph Smith called the "King Follett Discourse". You can read the entire transcript here: http://www.mrm.org/topics/documents-spe ... -discourse

" I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is. I am going to inquire after God; for I want you all to know him and to be familiar with him; and if I can bring you to a knowledge of him, all persecutions against me ought to cease. You will then know that I am his servant; for I speak as one having authority.

I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,--I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for the consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the vail, so that you may see."

"Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,--namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one,--from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me.

These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners, when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again, to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more; but they shall be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the track of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. It is plain beyond disputation; and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said.

A couple of other quotes:

We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement -- a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be. (LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, Ch.24, p.430 - p.431, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God,' the inspired word continues, 'and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.' The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same. (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

We are members of the family of the Eternal Father. He is a glorified and exalted and eternal Being, having a resurrected body of flesh and bones. His name is God, and the kind of life he lives is God's life. His name is also Eternal, and the name of the kind of life he lives is eternal life. Eternal life is God's life, and God's life is eternal life. We are commanded to be perfect as he is perfect and to advance and progress until we become like him, or in other words, until we gain eternal life. Thus Joseph Smith said, "You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power." (Teachings, pp. 346-47.) Christ our Lord has so obtained, thus enabling him to say to the faithful: "Ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father." (3 Ne. 28:10.) (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, p.23 - p.24, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive. (LDS President Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, p.245, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

This was the calling of Joseph Smith. He taught anew that God was in the form of man; that man was made in the image of God; and he taught the principles of justice, mercy, charity, and forgiveness. ... He taught the truths that the Prophets before him had taught; and he went beyond them. ... Joseph Smith taught men to look up to heaven and conceive of a God in the form of man. He taught them that they could become like their Father and God, who was 'an exalted Man.' And what is more simple and reasonable? Don't you parents expect your children to become like you? Or do you expect your children to be something else than men and women? No. You men will see your sons become men; you women will see your daughters become women. Then God our Father--yes, and our Mother--in heaven, looking down upon this world-- this school house in which their children are being educated--expect, and Joseph Smith taught it as a truth, that their children will be exalted, if they pursue the proper course, until they shall become divine beings themselves, worthy to stand upon that plane where stand their Father and their Mother in heaven. Like begets like; and the principle of eternal progress will make of man a God. (LDS Apostle Orson F. Whitney, Collected Discourses, Vol.5, May 8, 1898, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

Although Mormons are very nice people, the god they worship is utterly different from the God of Christianity. They have been given false teaching and worship a false god. Although I believe they will ultimately be saved, it will be by the real Jesus Christ, not by the false god of Mormonism.

If Joel Osteen publicly states that Mormons are Christians, yet admits that he hasn't "really studied them or thought about" the "little details" of Mormon theology, then he is at best a very irresponsible and unreliable teacher. At worst he may just be another Elmer Gantry.

Post by **_MLH** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:47 pm

there is so much confusion these days re: christianity.
IF these pastors would read there bible it is clear about
such matters.

" IF anyone comes to you with another gospel other than what
I preach, count him accursed.

"again I say,

( I dont have bible with me now)

It seems so much is "tolerated" to keep the so-called peace. I dont
attend church right now because I am tired of the organizational clubs.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:24 pm

MLH wrote:there is so much confusion these days re: christianity.
IF these pastors would read there bible it is clear about
such matters.

" IF anyone comes to you with another gospel other than what
I preach, count him accursed.

"again I say,

( I dont have bible with me now)

It seems so much is "tolerated" to keep the so-called peace. I dont
attend church right now because I am tired of the organizational clubs.

You are right. It seems to me that there needs to be both lines, and balances. The lines should be put up anytime someone brings a false gospel or a false Christ, and the balance comes in with knowing what is essential in nature, and what is not.

Just my 2 cents worth.

But for the life of me, I can't see a single thing that the Mormons have in common with biblical Christianity.