Hi, I have a few questions about Mr. Gregg's life. I ask these in the spirit of curiosity about the life of a man who I find to be a brilliant and fascinating expositor, and whose personal life I view with enormous respect and admiration. I had the pleasure of meeting and talking with Mr. Gregg a few years ago in California and came away from that meeting with an even greater admiration for the man. I say all this to make clear that I hope these questions are in no way viewed as prying or inappropriate. Needless to say, if Steve or others tell me to mind my own business, then I would certainly respect that.
First, Steve occasionally refers to a background as a musician. I was wondering if there are any extant recordings of the Christian music that he performed, and, if so, if any are accessible to the public (over the internet or otherwise).
Second, in his short autobiographical sketch on the Narrow Path web page, Steve alludes to "occasions of failure and defects in [his] Christian life," and mentions that he has "written elsewhere of most of [his] embarrassing blunders." I was wondering if the referenced other writings on these issues are available to the public. I am especially reluctant to ask this because I would ordinarily not pry into what someone views as his mistakes or sins, but I ask it for two reasons. First, and most importantly, my own perceptions of Mr. Gregg's ethics, conduct, lifestyle, and holiness are so high that I'm curious to know what sorts of things he could possibly consider to be religious shortcomings or failings. Also, I think there's a natural tendency to have a fuller and more rounded view of those we admire, and I would be curious to hear any different side of Mr. Gregg's history that he would care to share with the public in order to round out and deepen my understanding of him. Second, Mr. Gregg's reference to having documented these other incidents in other (presumably public) writings led me to think that maybe they are the sorts of things that he would not mind sharing.
Apologies for the somewhat odd questions (especially the second one), but I would be interested to hear a response if anyone (in particular Mr. Gregg himself) would care to offer any.
Thanks for your consideration, and best regards.
CThomas
Two Questions About Steve Gregg
Re: Two Questions About Steve Gregg
Hi CThomas,
There have been recordings made in the past of some of our band's performances, but I do not have them, and they were never very good recordings. If you are interested in some of the songs that we played, a brother named Alex sat me down in front of a video camera last year and asked me to play a few of the songs from the Jesus Movement. They are not well-performed, mostly because I am not much of a musician, but he has posted them on Youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/user/SoulFood4You/videos?view=0
As for my "occasions of failure and defects in my Christian life," I am not sure how much to say about these. When I wrote those words, in 2002 (I think it was), I was referring to certain indiscretions that occurred when I was in my twenties. It is not clear that any direct commands of scripture were knowingly violated, but there was great foolishness and harm inadvertently done to a few parties. In the past, I have written of these things in some detail, but primarily for the benefit of those to whom I made myself accountable. I considered posting these things, but did not do so because those to whom I was accountable advised against it. Suffice it to say that I have had my moments of failure sufficient to bring shame on Christ and the ministry, if publicized. They have been few in number, and occurred during a very low spot in my life. To avoid morbid speculations from readers, I can assure you that they have not ever involved violation of financial trust, nor substance abuse, nor violation of my marriage vows, nor any form of violence or criminal behavior. I have not kept these matters a secret. They are known to my wife, to our board of directors, and to a wider number to friends than needed to know. However, to be publicly specific is something that others have discouraged me from.
There have been two very big scandals in my past in which I was entirely innocent. Much was written about those as well, but never (yet) posted. On two occasions, once in 1994-1995, and once in 2001-2002, I was treated by several of my companions as one needing discipline. However, in the first instance, every charge against me was a complete fabrication, and in the second, no specific charges were brought, and none could have been.
The first of these was when I placed a visiting teacher, from Australia, who did not know me as well as I thought he did, over the Great Commission School for a year. He and his family were acquaintances of my family and myself. He was a good teacher. However, he turned out to be hyper-charismatic and very committed to institutional church. Because he thought I discouraged charismatic gifts (which I do not) and because I was not a member of an institutional church, he began to have certain suspicions about me. His wife and mine also had some conflicts, which he took to heart as well. Unbeknown to me, he spent a year writing to my board of directors, claiming that there was "something wrong" with me. He felt that my family was reclusive (we were not) and that I was avoiding church membership because of some aversion on my part to living "in the light" (which was not the case). He made no more specific accusations than these, but by the time I knew that there was even anything negative between us, he had spread suspicions about me to my board of directors, to local Christian friends in town, and to our students in the school. I learned about this when we had our annual board meeting, and two board members resigned, while others looked at me with suspicion. It ended up being a very difficult year, but in the end, everybody who looked into the matter, including my board, realized that there had been no basis for the accusations other than this brother's dislike for my wife and myself and his disagreement with my ministry philosophies. During that time, I wrote over a hundred pages of correspondence with this man and with my own board members. When it had all blown over, one of my board members—a pastor and one of my most longstanding friends (who had even been led to view me with suspicion)—said that he had never seen any ministry come under such demonic attack as we had weathered. I thought so too, but it was not to be the last—or worst.
The second scandal happened when my wife of twenty years walked out on me and on the family. At the same time, she left the church and the Lord. Until then, I and everybody else thought she was a true and committed Christian. No one was more stunned than I was when, without provocation, she simply walked out on me and the kids, and never looked back. The year that followed was inexplicably confusing. I had done nothing (at least nothing that has ever been made known to me) to bring about this change in her or to make her want to leave. She had been a likeminded partner in ministry, and was living her dream on a homestead in Idaho, when she suddenly reverted to the mindset and lifestyle of her preconversion teenaged years (she was 43 at the time). She had served the Lord conscientiously for 25 years previously.
What made this so scandalous is that I had been, until then, a respected teacher in the church. However, many in that church believed that all divorce is always the fault of the husband, since he is the head of the wife, he is responsible for all of her behavior. It was assumed (reasonably enough) that a good wife would never just walk out on a good man. Therefore, it was assumed that I must not have been as good a man as I appeared to be. Approximately half the church seemed willing to entertain suspicions that there must be some dark secret in our home, about which I was not being transparent (ironically, one of the complaints that I heard often from my wife was that I was always way too transparent). I was called before the leading brothers of the church several times and asked what it was that I had done to make my wife leave. I answered that they should ask her, since she had not told me (now, twelve years later, she still has never told me). I told them that I had, obviously, spent much time in prayer and had asked God to show me if I had ever behaved in an unloving manner toward her, but had not become aware of anything.
My answers were entirely unsatisfactory to them. They "knew" that I must have done something very bad, and were frustrated that I was not being forthright about it. They accused me of lying and of concealing my "sins." I was concealing nothing, and asked them what they wanted me to tell them. I said, "Why don't you tell me what I am being accused of, since I don't have a clue." But they didn't make any specific accusations. I told them to ask my children (three of whom were teenagers) what they thought I had done. They were reluctant to do this, but eventually one of the leaders came to our home to interview the kids privately. After doing so, he went back to the leaders and said, "We have been accusing an innocent man."
For some reason, this didn't diminish the suspicions of some, whose theology did not allow for the possibility of an innocent man suffering this kind of trials. When I told them that I felt like Job, they accused me of being self-righteous. They even held a tribunal with the mind of excommunicating me. I have complete transcripts of that gathering, where six men (former friends of mine, with whom I had never had any kind of conflict) each got up to make the case that I should be disfellowshipped. What was interesting about their testimony is that none of them accused me of anything. When certain brothers stood up to defend my character (one of whom was someone who posts here regularly), they were ignored. In the end, I was not excommunicated (since no one had brought any charges against me), but I volunteered to leave the church. A number of the families involved in the tribunal left the church and asked me to teach them on Sundays in a home, which I did for a while, but was pretty emotionally devastated by the divorce and the rejection from many of my friends, so that I was not enthusiastic about teaching.
Eventually, my children and I left Idaho, and moved to California. A year after this whole fiasco, four of the six men who had urged my excommunication came to me individually to repent for having done so. Two of them repented in tears. They said they had been in a totally confused spiritual and mental state at the time. In the meantime, they had also been able to observe my ex-wife's trajectory, and to conclude that she did not require a rational basis for any of the decisions she was making. I have been specifically reconciled with most of the six men, and I have seen the other two, who seemed to be on friendly terms with me, though they have never let me know that they have repented.
There have been recordings made in the past of some of our band's performances, but I do not have them, and they were never very good recordings. If you are interested in some of the songs that we played, a brother named Alex sat me down in front of a video camera last year and asked me to play a few of the songs from the Jesus Movement. They are not well-performed, mostly because I am not much of a musician, but he has posted them on Youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/user/SoulFood4You/videos?view=0
As for my "occasions of failure and defects in my Christian life," I am not sure how much to say about these. When I wrote those words, in 2002 (I think it was), I was referring to certain indiscretions that occurred when I was in my twenties. It is not clear that any direct commands of scripture were knowingly violated, but there was great foolishness and harm inadvertently done to a few parties. In the past, I have written of these things in some detail, but primarily for the benefit of those to whom I made myself accountable. I considered posting these things, but did not do so because those to whom I was accountable advised against it. Suffice it to say that I have had my moments of failure sufficient to bring shame on Christ and the ministry, if publicized. They have been few in number, and occurred during a very low spot in my life. To avoid morbid speculations from readers, I can assure you that they have not ever involved violation of financial trust, nor substance abuse, nor violation of my marriage vows, nor any form of violence or criminal behavior. I have not kept these matters a secret. They are known to my wife, to our board of directors, and to a wider number to friends than needed to know. However, to be publicly specific is something that others have discouraged me from.
There have been two very big scandals in my past in which I was entirely innocent. Much was written about those as well, but never (yet) posted. On two occasions, once in 1994-1995, and once in 2001-2002, I was treated by several of my companions as one needing discipline. However, in the first instance, every charge against me was a complete fabrication, and in the second, no specific charges were brought, and none could have been.
The first of these was when I placed a visiting teacher, from Australia, who did not know me as well as I thought he did, over the Great Commission School for a year. He and his family were acquaintances of my family and myself. He was a good teacher. However, he turned out to be hyper-charismatic and very committed to institutional church. Because he thought I discouraged charismatic gifts (which I do not) and because I was not a member of an institutional church, he began to have certain suspicions about me. His wife and mine also had some conflicts, which he took to heart as well. Unbeknown to me, he spent a year writing to my board of directors, claiming that there was "something wrong" with me. He felt that my family was reclusive (we were not) and that I was avoiding church membership because of some aversion on my part to living "in the light" (which was not the case). He made no more specific accusations than these, but by the time I knew that there was even anything negative between us, he had spread suspicions about me to my board of directors, to local Christian friends in town, and to our students in the school. I learned about this when we had our annual board meeting, and two board members resigned, while others looked at me with suspicion. It ended up being a very difficult year, but in the end, everybody who looked into the matter, including my board, realized that there had been no basis for the accusations other than this brother's dislike for my wife and myself and his disagreement with my ministry philosophies. During that time, I wrote over a hundred pages of correspondence with this man and with my own board members. When it had all blown over, one of my board members—a pastor and one of my most longstanding friends (who had even been led to view me with suspicion)—said that he had never seen any ministry come under such demonic attack as we had weathered. I thought so too, but it was not to be the last—or worst.
The second scandal happened when my wife of twenty years walked out on me and on the family. At the same time, she left the church and the Lord. Until then, I and everybody else thought she was a true and committed Christian. No one was more stunned than I was when, without provocation, she simply walked out on me and the kids, and never looked back. The year that followed was inexplicably confusing. I had done nothing (at least nothing that has ever been made known to me) to bring about this change in her or to make her want to leave. She had been a likeminded partner in ministry, and was living her dream on a homestead in Idaho, when she suddenly reverted to the mindset and lifestyle of her preconversion teenaged years (she was 43 at the time). She had served the Lord conscientiously for 25 years previously.
What made this so scandalous is that I had been, until then, a respected teacher in the church. However, many in that church believed that all divorce is always the fault of the husband, since he is the head of the wife, he is responsible for all of her behavior. It was assumed (reasonably enough) that a good wife would never just walk out on a good man. Therefore, it was assumed that I must not have been as good a man as I appeared to be. Approximately half the church seemed willing to entertain suspicions that there must be some dark secret in our home, about which I was not being transparent (ironically, one of the complaints that I heard often from my wife was that I was always way too transparent). I was called before the leading brothers of the church several times and asked what it was that I had done to make my wife leave. I answered that they should ask her, since she had not told me (now, twelve years later, she still has never told me). I told them that I had, obviously, spent much time in prayer and had asked God to show me if I had ever behaved in an unloving manner toward her, but had not become aware of anything.
My answers were entirely unsatisfactory to them. They "knew" that I must have done something very bad, and were frustrated that I was not being forthright about it. They accused me of lying and of concealing my "sins." I was concealing nothing, and asked them what they wanted me to tell them. I said, "Why don't you tell me what I am being accused of, since I don't have a clue." But they didn't make any specific accusations. I told them to ask my children (three of whom were teenagers) what they thought I had done. They were reluctant to do this, but eventually one of the leaders came to our home to interview the kids privately. After doing so, he went back to the leaders and said, "We have been accusing an innocent man."
For some reason, this didn't diminish the suspicions of some, whose theology did not allow for the possibility of an innocent man suffering this kind of trials. When I told them that I felt like Job, they accused me of being self-righteous. They even held a tribunal with the mind of excommunicating me. I have complete transcripts of that gathering, where six men (former friends of mine, with whom I had never had any kind of conflict) each got up to make the case that I should be disfellowshipped. What was interesting about their testimony is that none of them accused me of anything. When certain brothers stood up to defend my character (one of whom was someone who posts here regularly), they were ignored. In the end, I was not excommunicated (since no one had brought any charges against me), but I volunteered to leave the church. A number of the families involved in the tribunal left the church and asked me to teach them on Sundays in a home, which I did for a while, but was pretty emotionally devastated by the divorce and the rejection from many of my friends, so that I was not enthusiastic about teaching.
Eventually, my children and I left Idaho, and moved to California. A year after this whole fiasco, four of the six men who had urged my excommunication came to me individually to repent for having done so. Two of them repented in tears. They said they had been in a totally confused spiritual and mental state at the time. In the meantime, they had also been able to observe my ex-wife's trajectory, and to conclude that she did not require a rational basis for any of the decisions she was making. I have been specifically reconciled with most of the six men, and I have seen the other two, who seemed to be on friendly terms with me, though they have never let me know that they have repented.
Re: Two Questions About Steve Gregg
Thanks for posting this Steve.
Grace and peace to you all.
Grace and peace to you all.
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.
Re: Two Questions About Steve Gregg
Thank you very much for the quick and thoughtful answer.
First things first. I was really blown away by your musical talent. I strongly beg to differ about your assessment of their quality. I am frankly amazed by them. My one regret about them is that they do not include more originals, because my favorite one (disclaimer notwithstanding) is "Try Jesus." Really well crafted song, especially for a sixteen-year-old! The lyrics (but, thankfully, not the vocalization) reminds me a bit of Kris Kristofferson, apart from the Christian nature of the song, of course. It's weird -- I almost wonder if there's some more general mental commonality that would make the same people appreciate both the intellectual content of your lectures and the aesthetics of your music. In either event, thank you. I sincerely hope you will have the occasion to record more in the future.
Thank you also for the generous response to the undoubtedly obnoxious second question I asked. Maybe I'm soft on accountability (and undoubtedly my own Church errs in the opposite direction of imposing insufficient personal accountability, at least as to ordinary members), but my main reaction was almost a horror that a Church would impose an unsubstantiated inquisition on you in the wake of an undoubtedly already-traumatic divorce. Again, maybe I'm too much of a softie, but to me that seems sort of the opposite of what the congregation should be doing in the absence of some substantial, concrete evidence of wrongdoing.
Anyway, to close on a personal note, I am right now enjoying the pleasure of introducing my kids -- who are at last just about old enough -- to your material, starting with the YouTube video lectures through the Gospel of John. Still early, but I'm optimistic that they'll start to get as much out of these as I have (or whether they will need to wait another year or two to do so).
Thanks again, and best regards.
CThomas
First things first. I was really blown away by your musical talent. I strongly beg to differ about your assessment of their quality. I am frankly amazed by them. My one regret about them is that they do not include more originals, because my favorite one (disclaimer notwithstanding) is "Try Jesus." Really well crafted song, especially for a sixteen-year-old! The lyrics (but, thankfully, not the vocalization) reminds me a bit of Kris Kristofferson, apart from the Christian nature of the song, of course. It's weird -- I almost wonder if there's some more general mental commonality that would make the same people appreciate both the intellectual content of your lectures and the aesthetics of your music. In either event, thank you. I sincerely hope you will have the occasion to record more in the future.
Thank you also for the generous response to the undoubtedly obnoxious second question I asked. Maybe I'm soft on accountability (and undoubtedly my own Church errs in the opposite direction of imposing insufficient personal accountability, at least as to ordinary members), but my main reaction was almost a horror that a Church would impose an unsubstantiated inquisition on you in the wake of an undoubtedly already-traumatic divorce. Again, maybe I'm too much of a softie, but to me that seems sort of the opposite of what the congregation should be doing in the absence of some substantial, concrete evidence of wrongdoing.
Anyway, to close on a personal note, I am right now enjoying the pleasure of introducing my kids -- who are at last just about old enough -- to your material, starting with the YouTube video lectures through the Gospel of John. Still early, but I'm optimistic that they'll start to get as much out of these as I have (or whether they will need to wait another year or two to do so).
Thanks again, and best regards.
CThomas