How many JesusPeople & Charismatic converts finish the race?

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dizerner
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Re: How many JesusPeople & Charismatic converts finish the r

Post by dizerner » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:01 pm

Jepne wrote:So in my experience, if they fall away, how could they have ever really known Him?"

So, there is that scripture in Hebrews which says it is impossible for a person who has known him to be restored once again, but I read a book which contained several testimonies of people who came to the Lord, ended up in prison, came to the Lord again, over and over in a cycle which ended with them finally finding stability in him when they were in middle age.
I think people misapply that verse for sure. One backslider shared with me that he was trying to come back to God and randomly opened his Bible to this verse—with a sickening feeling he felt shut out of heaven forever. Assuming every backslider could fit the conditions of this particular warning, I still think we should read this verse as a deliberate once-for-all rejection of Christ, not a "drifting away" as Hebrews previously talked about. We have the parable of the prodigal son or the lost coin, or even the OT picture of God calling Israel from its numerous backslidings, always giving it that one more chance, to assure us that the point of no return is not reached simply because we fall away from the Lord. As long as it is called "Today" we can "hear his voice" and see that "all day long" he had his hands "stretched out to a stubborn and rebellious people." We should never be presumptuous, but the door to restoration of relationship is only barred from our side, not from God's.
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backwoodsman
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Re: How many JesusPeople & Charismatic converts finish the r

Post by backwoodsman » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:53 pm

dizerner wrote:One backslider shared with me that he was trying to come back to God and randomly opened his Bible to this verse—with a sickening feeling he felt shut out of heaven forever.
Interesting. Apparently, God isn't the only spiritual power who can make use of the "randomly open the Bible and point to a verse" method when it suits his purposes.

I have a little bit different take on Heb. 6:4-6. In context, the writer is talking to Christians who were once spiritually mature, but have backslidden to a state of spiritual infancy, yet think they're still mature and growing. In v6, "seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame," is speaking of such people in their current state -- not of what would happen if they did try to repent, as it's commonly understood (Robertson says the verbs are in the present tense). In my experience, it really is impossible to bring such people back to a state of spiritual growth toward maturity, because they simply can't be made to see their need. The only way I've found to have a chance of reaching such people is interaction on spiritual things over a long period of time. Many of those who chase after all the new-age teachings that permeate the church these days ("Jesus Calling" being one recent example) are in this category.

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dizerner
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Re: How many JesusPeople & Charismatic converts finish the r

Post by dizerner » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:52 pm

I had the same thought, backwoodsman.

The reason I think this verse speaks of a deliberate rejection is it says "they crucify for themselves the Son of God." Unless that's deliberate, I don't see how it could fit. How could it speak of a person that might possibly later say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it." The only reason they can't be later renewed to repentance is because they made a once-for-all choice.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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morbo3000
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Re: How many JesusPeople & Charismatic converts finish the r

Post by morbo3000 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:26 pm

Thank you so much Mitzi. What a wonderful story of grace. It made my day


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