Donald Miller statement

Post by **_GCS 98** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:24 am

I saw Donald Miller (author of Blue Like Jazz) speak last night and he said something that I found interesting. He referenced the common saying that everyone has a God shaped hole in their heart and only Jesus can fill it and once it's filled then we'll be ultimately fulfilled. He then went on to state that this statement is incorrect as is evidenced by all the broken and seeking Christians there still are. It was something to that effect. If you look around at most Christians I'd have to agree with him. It seems most Christians I know are still seeking fulfillment in other things just as much as everyone else. I was wondering what everyone thinks about this.

Post by **_Les Wright** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:15 pm

Hi GCS 98,

everyone has a God shaped hole in their heart and only Jesus can fill it and once it's filled then we'll be ultimately fulfilled

As far as an analogy goes, I have always liked the statement about everybody having a God-shaped hole, as we all need Jesus!

When you press the analogy/illustration (or any for that matter) it likely falls apart. Perhaps the reason this one might break down is that while Jesus fills the need we all have for a Saviour.. real Christians still have troubling times. I guess it depends on how 'ultimately fulfilled' is defined and understood.

While our thirst is quenched because we've found the source of living water, we still thirst for more Water (Jesus)!

On the other hand, if we're not seeking first His righteousness and kingdom, perhaps He isn't filling our God-shaped hole?

Les

Post by **_schoel** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:01 am

I think that that phrase is a theology-lite version of the fact that outside of complete submission to God, humans cannot and do not function correctly. I prefer obedience instead of fulfillment in this context.

However, this truth isn't made invalid by those who call themselves Christians whose gods are not the true God.

Also, the assertion made by Donald Miller seems to imagine that a person is instantly sanctified into perfection when they pray the sinner's prayer. The time of conversion is often the first step on a journey (as it is in my experience) where the believer is in a pattern of recognizing sin and removing it all throught the power of the Spirit. As I look back 5 years, I see areas of my life that weren't submitted to Christ that are now, and I'm sure that 5 years from now, the same will apply.

Just my 2 cents.

Post by **_Rae** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:55 am

I've read part of Blue Like Jazz and plan on reading the rest. I have also heard several discussions about the book, as well as the general post-modern movement. It seems that while they generally find a lot of the right problems with American Christianity, the solutions are all wrong. I find myself saying, "Yes I agree, sort of, but..."

I faced the same dilemma when I started listening to Steve's teachings. So many things that I had grown up taking for granted were challenged. But when I listened to Steve it made me go "wow, I need to study Scripture more... what is Scripture really saying?" But it doesn't seem that Miller and McClaren quite have this effect on the people they write to and speak to. It seems to make people just sit back and "enjoy God" and "be themselves" and chunk any type of, well, truth.

Has anyone noticed this as well?

Post by **_GCS 98** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:41 pm

Yeah I've definately noticed this. I attended one of the fastest growing churches in American history with a generally well known preacher who's famous for doing things not as the traditional church has done. However my whole time there and the reason we decided to leave is because we never once heard the preacher recommend reading the Bible or spending any amount of time in prayer. It was always... rest in God and try to be a good person. Which a lot of Christians need to do but it was so one sided. This pastor was voted by Relevant magazine as one of the top 5 most influential Christians today.

Post by **_Royal Oddball 2:9** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:48 pm

When I was in a fundamentalist church and searching for the truth, I toyed with the idea of joining a po-mo, emergent church. It was made up primarily of young adults, of which I am, and of course I wanted to attend a church where there were lots of people like me. Their laid-back, less traditional style of doing church appealed to me as well since I was sick to death of being subjected to a screaming pastor and a blistering sermon every time I attended Sunday morning service.

Back then, I appreciated (and still do) some of the emergent conversation. However, ultimately I declined to join them because it seemed to me that they could never pin down absolute truth. Every thing was about discovering the mysteries of God and it seemed to me that a lot of basic truth, like the necessity of holiness, was subject to scrutiny. I mean, a journey of discovery is fun and fruitful and necessary but eventually you have to get somewhere and make some decisions and stand on them, and so many of them seemed unwilling to commit to that.

In their efforts to rid the Church of some of the unBiblical notions modernism had subjected it to (such as the idea that success can be measured in numbers and pragmatism should be a guiding force), they wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So while I appreciate some of their contributions to Christianity at large, I'd much rather embrace the kind of radical Christian counterculture Steve speaks of on his website, where obtaining the nature of Christ and embracing God's ideals is paramount.