Restoration of Israel from Isaiah 49

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steve
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Re: Restoration of Israel from Isaiah 49

Post by steve » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:53 pm

The question is if they interpret every single promise to Israel.
They don't need to cite every promise, since the promises to Israel are relatively few, but are repeated lots of times (sometimes in slightly different terms from passage to passage). The primary promises would reduce to the following:

1. God will regather the exiles (often qualified by the limitation of "the remnant")
2. He will pour out His Spirit upon them (often expressed in terms of pouring out water on a desert and bringing forth lush foliage and/or fruit)
3. He will raise up a King/Shepherd to rule and care for them (sometimes called "David," but easily recognizable as Jesus).
4. Israel will be forgiven, restored to right relationship with God, and become useful in reaching the Gentiles

These are the main promises, each of which is repeated dozens—if not scores or hundreds—of times. Any other lesser promises are contained in passages in which these themes predominate. There is one particular era described in all of the promises—the Messianic Kingdom—which is seen as presaged by both the exodus and the return of the exiles from Babylon.

Now, if we could discover what Jesus and the apostles believed to be the correct meaning of these four promises, or the proper time of their fulfillment, we would not need for them to cite every occurrence of each theme. Representative quotations from each category would suffice to reveal their understanding of the fulfillments of all like passages.

Fortunately for us, they actually did this very thing. There are multiple cases of the apostles quoting passages from each of these categories—and with a remarkable consistency in their interpretation! It is interesting that, in citing and applying these very passages, the apostles NEVER ONCE hinted at an unrealized fulfillment to be looked for in the future of Israel. Instead, in every case, they applied the passages to their own time and their own work. Thus we need not be in doubt as to what they saw as the fulfillment of all the promises to Israel. It is Jesus Christ, who has established His kingdom, redeemed the true remnant of Israel, gathered them to Himself, given them His Spirit, and is bring forth fruit from the formerly barren ground (or alternatively, barren womb).

If anyone doubts this, he needs only look up the passages in question and see what the New Testament writers say about them. If this seems too tedious a task, I invite you to listen to my series "Topical Isaiah." I have done the heavy lifting for you. You need only listen, look and test for yourself. I look forward to your joining us on this side of the aisle after your research is complete.

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steve
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Re: Restoration of Israel from Isaiah 49

Post by steve » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:55 pm

Up to this point, Tim has only debated in written form, but is looking to interact more in a live format. His only significant debate against a Calvinist is his written critique of James White's treatment of John 6. Maybe December would work for a radio debate. I will ask Tim to see what he thinks.
I really appreciated what Tim wrote about John six. I would enjoy getting to know him.

steve7150
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Re: Restoration of Israel from Isaiah 49

Post by steve7150 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:39 pm

Fortunately for us, they actually did this very thing. There are multiple cases of the apostles quoting passages from each of these categories—and with a remarkable consistency in their interpretation! It is interesting that, in citing and applying these very passages, the apostles NEVER ONCE hinted at an unrealized fulfillment to be looked for in the future of Israel. Instead, in every case, they applied the passages to their own time and their own work. Thus we need not be in doubt as to what they saw as the fulfillment of all the promises to Israel. It is Jesus Christ, who has established His kingdom, redeemed the true remnant of Israel, gathered them to Himself, given them His Spirit, and is bring forth fruit from the formerly barren ground (or alternatively, barren womb).

If anyone doubts this, he needs only look up the passages in question and see what the New Testament writers say about them. If this seems too tedious a task, I invite you to listen to my series "Topical Isaiah." I have done the heavy lifting for you. You need only listen, look and test for yourself. I look forward to your joining us on this side of the aisle after your research is complete.





I will listen to "Topical Isaiah" as soon as i can and i appreciate your throughness in interpreting scripture. I'm currently not sure about your statement that the Apostles never hinted about national Israel and i did reference some verses before like Acts 1 , where it sounds to me that these disciples who were with Jesus for about 3 years still expected a restoration of national Israel. Jesus must have said a lot of things not recorded in scripture during these 3 years and yet they expected Israel's restoration and in reply he did'nt rebuke them , he simply said it was not for them to know the time.
In Romans 11 i've heard your interpretation and you may be right but it sounds to me like Paul speaks of both earthly Israel & spiritual Israel and promises to both. Matt 23.39 sounds like a prophetic statement about Jerusalem beyond 70AD and Jer 30.3 talks of possessing the land, which means "ownership" which was not until 1948. Also "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the gentiles, until the times of the gentiles shall be fulfilled." Luke 21.24 To me the word "until" means Jerusalem will be restored.

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