Hi Homer,
You wrote (to me):
You say Jesus never used the threat of hell ("tool") as a motivation for men to repent. The passages above contradict your idea. IMO Gehenna is never used in the New Testament as a reference to literal garbage dump; it is always used figuratively.
In your responses to me, you make frequent reference to the "garbage dump" idea of Gehenna, as if it were my view. While many refer to Gehenna this way, I have no dog in that race. I do not affirm (and have no interest in knowing) whether Gehenna was or was not used as the garbage dump in Jesus' time. The question is a distraction. My contention is that Jesus used Gehenna the same way that the Old Testament uses it. Gehenna (also called Tophet) is the place where the corpses of the slain were disposed of after the destruction of Jerusalem, in 586 BC. (Isaiah 30:33/ Jeremiah 7:31-34; 19:6-13).
The passages you cite do not contradict my statement, unless it can be shown that they speak of hell. Your comments notwithstanding, I see no evidence that they do. You repeat arguments that have been answered numerous times in earlier threads. You talk about "eternal fire" as if there has not been page after page of discussion about the meaning of
aionios.
Of course, Christ contrasts (in Matt.10:28) the suffering of martyrdom at the hands of those who can only kill the body, on the one hand, with the suffering of God's ultimate judgment, on the other. The choice is between dying on good terms with God (at the hands of hostile men) and dying on bad terms with God (because one was intimidated by persecution, and betrayed Christ under pressure). This is plain enough in the context. The destruction of the soul, when added to the destruction of the body, speaks of dying under God's wrath, though "soul and body" is a phrase meaning "total destruction" (even of trees!) in Isaiah 10:18 (its only other occurrence in scripture).
"Sons of Gehenna" is a Hebraism meaning "those destined to Gehenna," just as "Son of Perdition" (whether applied to Judas or to the Man of Lawlessness) means "one destined for perdition."
The contrast between Gehenna and eternal life is perfectly apt. Israel was being divided into two categories—the remnant and the apostates. The former would enter into the life of the Messianic Age (
aionios life), while the apostates would be discarded and suffer the coming holocaust.
You have previously (as here) raised the point that many of Jesus' hearers would be dead by AD 70, and would thus not suffer in that judgment. No doubt some would die prior to that time, but not all. Jesus repeatedly said that it would come in the generation of His hearers (Matt.16:28; 23:36; 24:34). In fact, He specifically identified Gehenna with that judgment, when he said to the Pharisees: "How can you escape the condemnation of Gehenna...all these things will come upon this generation" (Matt.23:33, 36). While you may be correct that many of them died before seeing that judgment, this fact did not prevent Jesus from speaking as if it was imminent and something for them to avoid. He placed it within their generation.
You say Gehenna "is always used figuratively." I wonder how you support this contention. As near as I can tell, from the Old Testament passages where it appears, the Valley of Hinnom is always used literally by canonical writers. Of course, the imaginative rabbis had innovated a figurative application for Gehenna, but Jesus sternly warned His disciples to avoid the doctrines of those folks (Matt.16:12).
If Gehenna refers to the hell that every lost sinner, Jew and Gentile, will enter, it is interesting that no one was ever warned about it in scripture except for Palestinian Jews. None of the epistles written to Gentiles ever mention it. If Gehenna is hell, and not the holocaust of AD 66-70, would not the Gentiles be in as much danger of it as the Jews to whom Jesus spoke? Should they not also have been warned?
