Alcohol & Welfare Programs: Topics on today's show

[steve7150]

Yes, I am a socialist




Socialist countries one by one are learning they have uncompetitive economies in a competitive world. You can't have nanny states and expect to maintain your standard of living except by borrowing debt and then hiding the debt. The game is up and the socialist house of cards is collapsing. There are a few socialist success stories if a country happens to have abundant natural resources already in place, but if a socialist country actually has to manufacture and produce it's own goods it can't do it competitively. The unions are too strong, the pension plans are too lucrative, the retirement ages too young, the birth rates too low and a general anti business sentiment.

Of course the opposite end of the spectrum with unrestrained capitalism leaves too many workers in misery, so some form of responsible capitalism may strike the best balance. I like our form of government which dissipates centralized power from the executive branch although it often produces inaction and gridlock. I think resisting centralized power is worth the price of an apparently slow moving government.

[thrombomodulin]

the opposite end of the spectrum with unrestrained capitalism leaves too many workers in misery

May I ask on what basis this assertion is made?

[steve7150]

May I ask on what basis this assertion is made?





History and believe me i am a pro business, free enterprise person but the lives of workers before unions and workplace rules and minimum wages were miserable.

However now the pendulum has swung too far to the left IMHO.

[thrombomodulin]

History does show miserable working conditions, but I don't see how it makes the case you are stating. Unions and minimum wage laws were not the reason for the improvement for workers well being. One of the strongest arguments of economics is that minimum wage laws hurt the very people it is intended to help, and unions do nothing more than benefit what group of workers at the expense of forced exclusion of another group of workers. The true cause of improved working conditions over the past centuries is the progress made in the "division of labor" and "capitial accumulation", it should not be attributed to unions or minimum wage laws.

[SteveF]

kaufmannphillips

For what it’s worth, I read through what you had to say (I may be the only one) and thought you raised some good points that require careful consideration and response.

I once lived inside a bubble that taught socialism is a dirty word and a person could be quickly dismissed by identifying themselves as such. That bubble was burst when I married into a family that had politically active (one actually ran for an office), and strong left leaning individuals in them.

At the dinner table, where we regularly meet, my “air tight” arguments were under cross examination. I was constantly forced to consider various positions and see how nuanced things can be. There are no silver bullets.

I still consider there to be error in their thinking as their ideology seems to drive their views at times, but I can say that, sadly, it seems to me that political ideology drives many Christian’s thinking as well and not Christ. Jesus does not espouse a political party. If Christ were to return, I don’t think he would make an appearance on FOX News decrying the strategy of a 2 % tax increase on the rich and stricter gun rules etc…

It seems to me we’ve been steered off course by political propaganda and lost our ability to hear what others are saying. Jesus loves socialists, communists and capitalists. Political ideology is not a wedge we should allow to dictate how we interact with those whom Jesus loves.

I welcome your thoughts kaufmannphillips.

Steve

[brody196]

For the life of me, I just can't understand how anyone thinks the gov is the answer to poverty,or that they even help.

[Perry]

For the life of me, I just can't understand how anyone thinks the gov is the answer to poverty,or that they even help.

That's because you're just not nearly smart enough. Leave the thinking to people who are smarter than you. Also, let them spend your money too... you're not smart enough for that either. You just be a good Boxer and keep pulling the plow. Napoleon knows best.

[Bud]

SteveF wrote,

"It seems to me we’ve been steered off course by political propaganda and lost our ability to hear what others are saying. Jesus loves socialists, communists and capitalists. Political ideology is not a wedge we should allow to dictate how we interact with those whom Jesus loves"

I agree with this.

[thrombomodulin]

kaufmannphillips, SteveF,

There is a very interesting argument against socialism known as the "economic calculation problem", which was first proposed in 1922 by Mises - Link: [url=http://mises.org/pdf/econcalc.pdf]. Have you considered it before? What criticisms of this view do you know about?

Jesus does not espouse a political party

Nor does he espouse any political positions. I have been wondering if that could be because anarchy (as in anarcho-capitialism) would represent the point of view Jesus holds towards the State. Jesus complete lack of political positions would seem to be explained if He never considered the State as a legitmate means to any ends either He or his followers seek. Mark 10:42.

[kaufmannphillips]

Perry wrote:
You're no Mordecai

He's a legendary character; I'm a notorious character. That's pretty close.

kaufmannphillips wrote:
If a good steward has a great master, whose judgment they trust more than their own, mightn't they at least seek his input on how to handle a questionable matter, before resorting to their own sensibilities?

Perry wrote:
Absolutely...

What do you suppose that input feels like?

I suppose that different people might experience the interrelational dynamic differently. G-d might exercise different manners with different persons.