The Narrow Path Ministries

I was once asked by Steve on the radio (before he published his book), "How we know which position is the correct one?"
I was quick to point out the process of elimination. First we show how universalism is not a viable concept...and then
once we have narrowed it down to annihilationalism or Conditional Immortality verse eternal hell...then we show how
annihilationalism is untrue. This can be down with some very basic logic if you think deeply enough about various concepts
related to salvation.

The real debate for me is between annihilationalism and eternal unequal punishment and separation (the separation is
not from an omnipresent Creator). I do not find universal redemption to be a position that any mature believer with
a mature theology takes seriously. In fact, every believer I know that is walking in the Spirit (fasting and praying and
seeking deliverance) would quickly condemn it as heresy.

I say this because it (UR) is a very serious attack on the gospel and an attack the importance of faith in this lifetime.
Particularism is sine qua non with the gospel message. UR is an enemy of the cross plain and simple.

I would like this thread to be somewhat of an open thread related to all radio topics that have been discussed regarding
eternal hell, the Character of God, universal redemption, and all logical arguments for and against either.

There are multiple ways in which we show that UR is not a logical view. Let's throw out a first that I wasn't really
going to focus on, but it just sort of came to me recently. The subject is rewards in heaven.

The historical orthodox view of eternal unequal suffering and logical separation has either two judgements or one
judgement where things are finalized at the same time for all believers or all unbelievers. The believers "may" have
a judgement seat/time separate (or at a different time) than the unbelievers...but all the unbelievers are judged by
their works at the same time and all of the believers are rewarded for their fruits/talents/good works (etc) at the
same time (unless you're pre-trib and 'might' have two times for rewards for believers).

The question is.... "How do you bear good fruit in hell?" How do you obtain rewards for heaven if you were an
unbeliever your entire earthly life and then went to hell to suffer (what are your individual rewards going to be
based on?" How come everyone is entering hell at a different time? rather than having a logical judgement seat
were everyone enter the eternal state at the "same time" which is the order we would expect so that the new
earth and the new heaven are "complete" at the same time and we are not waiting for new recruits one by one
which would make eternal heaven mutable or changing for new recruits.

This is not one of my major points...but before I begin to make them I thought I would throw it out...

How are you a "faithful servant?" in hell? How do you bear good fruit in hell? How do you bear good fruit
anytime before heaven IF you go directly from hell to new earth/heaven? If you say "no rewards" then
you have billions of people with no rewards while only a half a billion or so DO have rewards from when
they did good works here on earth.

This is discombobulated.

I will have MUCH MUCH more on other more serious discombobulations of universal redemption...

The question is.... "How do you bear good fruit in hell?" How do you obtain rewards for heaven if you were an
unbeliever your entire earthly life and then went to hell to suffer (what are your individual rewards going to be
based on?" How come everyone is entering hell at a different time? rather than having a logical judgement seat
were everyone enter the eternal state at the "same time" which is the order we would expect so that the new
earth and the new heaven are "complete" at the same time and we are not waiting for new recruits one by one
which would make eternal heaven mutable or changing for new recruits








First of all there is no biblical word "hell". There are phrases like "gehenna" and "hades" translated into hell. Hades means grave and gehenna may or may not be a reference to hell.
The lake of fire is clearly where all unbelievers end up and it appears they are judged at the same time, on the last day. We don't really know what the lake of fire actually is. The traditional view is that the fire is torture, the annihilation view is that the fire destroys and the UR view is that it purifies.
So i would imagine the way to bear fruit in the lake of fire is by doing good works as part of a process of repentance. Of course there is no point in debating this as it is speculation and surely God can work it out. Lastly the lake of fire may be a reference to God or perhaps being in the presence of God, as God is called an eternal fire and a consuming fire.

This is not one of my major points...

I'm very glad of it.

This is discombobulated.

My thoughts exactly!

Also, "I do not find universal redemption to be a position that any mature believer with a mature theology takes seriously. In fact, every believer I know that is walking in the Spirit (fasting and praying and seeking deliverance) would quickly condemn it as heresy." The implication being a believer in UR is not mature, is not walking in spirit, and apparently, that if one eats a meal, they cannot think clearly. I would suggest, blood sugar being what it is, that you eat a meal before thinking too long. It might help you avoid saying some of the insulting things you just did.

Regards, Brenden.
"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."

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TheEditor




Hi Brenden,
I thought about making the same comments but then i thought it might be better to let his real feelings continue to flourish.