revival lifespan

[steve]

I believe a person comes to salvation (in most cases) by God's Spirit bringing conviction of sin and of the reality of Christ. The individual then either submits to that conviction and repents, or else resists—either for awhile or permanently. I say "in most cases" because I do not know that there are not exceptions—but I don't know of any.

[Andre]

what role do we play in the salvation of others; if any?
(sorry that's more what i was trying to get at here)

[steve]

Well, I don't think that is a controversial question. We pray, we shine and we evangelize. Sometimes, like Paul in Athens, we may dispute with unbelievers.

[Paidion]

Hey Steve; a personal question:

How did your hair grow back so quickly?

[Andre]

Steve, can I just how much I’m enjoying this. It’s forcing me to really break down what I believe and why and is definitely forcing me to reexamine what I’m doing in my walk with God and why. In short I’m becoming a better Christian for it…

Now, still focusing on an individual's salvation:
Ok so the bible says “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” So that means that if the Lord has His way all would come to repentance. Now logically this means the issue is on our end.

Jesus also told us “I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest” and also “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.” So the issue is not that people do not desire the kingdom but that they have yet to be reached for whatever reason.

Now since God is immutable this means only we can change. This makes the problem, obviously, on our side of the equation.

Now you said in your warfare of the kingdom teaching that prayer wasn’t equated to any armor or weaponry because they didn’t have anything to equate it to at that time. That it is sort of a nuclear bomb in the spiritual realm. (I feel like I’m kinda cheating because I have had the pleasure of listening to quite a bit of your work) Now if you truly believe that, what does that prayer affect? Am I safe in assuming you mean the hearts and minds of men? If not then what were you referring to?

In the interest of saving time what I’m trying to get you to say is that you believe people must come to a decision on their own and that God does not predestine folks to heaven or hell. Maybe also that we are the ones given authority here on earth and that we are therefore responsible for much of what happens here on earth. It is therefore our responsibility to see to it that His will is done on earth as it is in heaven. If it is not “on earth as in heaven” then we are not doing something we are supposed to be that would affect the hearts of man and cause them to turn favorably towards God. What do you think and if you agree then what do you think we are lacking?

[steve]

If it is not “on earth as in heaven” then we are not doing something we are supposed to be that would affect the hearts of man and cause them to turn favorably towards God. What do you think and if you agree then what do you think we are lacking?

Hey Andre,

Well, as I said, our role is to "pray," "shine" and "evangelize." Our preaching of the gospel may be hindered by various factors: 1) Our message may be a corruption or a watering-down of the actual Gospel, so that it has no convicting power; 2) Our evangelism may be hindered by our failure to shine—that is, if men do not see our good works, they may give little credit to our message. Our godly living gives credibility to our message; 3) Likewise, our praying gives potency to the presentation and conviction to the reception of our message. Preaching without praying may exhibit a trust in the power of human wisdom or oratory, rather than in God's Spirit to convict.

The lack of revival may be due to a lack in any one or more of these areas. The correcting of these deficiencies may or may not bring instantaneous revival. However, once a significant number of Christians are preaching, living and praying as they should, there is good reason to believe a revival has begun.

Hey Steve; a personal question:

How did your hair grow back so quickly?

Paidion,

I don't feel that my hair has grown fast. It's just that the previous picture of me with it shorter was up for several months (all the while my hair continued to grow without being documented in my avatar).

[Joan]

This is a half-baked theory, but my take on revival is that it is unsustainable due to the fact that what God does, man sooner or later begins to "own." We develop formulas, methods and PRIDE. From there it's all downhill: God 'lets go,' we work hard at it until we coast slowly to a halt, and in the end, give up, become religious, or recognize the truth - that we are badly in need of revival!

[steve]

That's a pretty good analysis, Joan.

[Joan]

Thanks, Steve. I speak as one having come all the way to the end of that sequence more than once. At the moment, I feel desperately in need of Revival. I want so much to walk in a continually empowered state, and to share the Gospel effectively. I am painfully aware of the lost, everywhere I look, and yearn to share Christ with them. Instead, I am fighting to simply persevere from day to day. All I can think to do at this point is to hang on, live in obedience, follow the Spirit's leading as it comes, and cry out for a fresh outpouring of the Gospel in both word and power. I know the Lord is not obligated to my sense of urgency or timing. I'm content to wait if that is the Lord's desire, but... Am I missing something? Joan

[backwoodsman]

Joan's "half-baked theory" is how things seem to work out most of the time, and it's the way most denominations and movements get started -- and then continue for decades or centuries after God has gone in very different directions. Or more correctly, after God has long since continued in the way he's always gone, but people have gotten stuck on some side effect of God's working in a certain place and time, and forgotten to keep humbly following Jesus day by day as the Bible teaches, for the reasons Joan mentions.

True revival is certainly sustainable, but we are so easily distracted and sidetracked from the things of God that in practice, if it comes at all, it's rarely sustained for very long. There's much that can be learned about this from those who have gone before us, many of whom have largely been forgotten and eclipsed by flashier things that call themselves Christian. In short, our current cultures -- both secular and Christian -- have deceived us; there are no magic formulas or shortcuts to spiritual power and maturity, as many would have us believe.

I hope to add more to this thread in the near future, but for now allow me to suggest 3 short articles on the subject by Norman Grubb, which can be found at: http://www.normangrubb.com/Articles.htm Look for the 3 at the top; some of the others are worth a look as well.