The Narrow Path Ministries

95 Theses on the Power and Efficacy of Christ
Luke 18:9-17
Out of love and concern for the truth, and with the object of eliciting it…
These points are connected and the referenced verses in their contexts are primary.
1. God created us, showed us right from wrong through laws, we broke the laws, and He “served the death sentence” on our behalf.
2. He saved us from the death sentence for breaking His law, but what about our responsibility today? (74)
3. Did Jesus fulfill the Old Testament law only, or did He pay the price for a lifetime of sin? (75)
4. Once we believe in Jesus Christ, what happens with sin? Can we stop it? How much and to what level are we supposed to eradicate it? Are we okay if we just do our best? (76, 77)
5. If Christ died for sins, once for all, what about our grateful response to a loving God… shouldn’t we get our act together? (78)
6. There is a hurting world and we are supposed to let our light shine… what are the consequences and rewards of our behavior today and how does it play into our relationship with our heavenly Father? (79)
7. So, God created us in flesh and gave us choice.
8. Man became utterly wicked and God destroyed the entire world, save Noah’s family.
9. The world became populated again and then God gave us laws.
10. There are a couple of ways to refer to God’s laws throughout history, in the Old Testament and New Testament. One is the “Law of Moses” or the “Levitical Law” and pertains to the laws God gave through Moses. God also revealed righteous standards through the prophets. Additionally, the Father gave commands through Jesus and the writers of the New Testament. A term which refers to all of God’s laws which includes Old and New Testament laws, commands, precepts, and ordinances, is “law” (ancient Greek: Nomos).
11. One other claimed source of righteousness is human tradition, ideals, or ethics. This is not law but is often taught, so it is important to distinguish between laws from God and human laws.
12. Some of Jesus’ sharpest rebukes were to the Pharisees for neglecting the laws of God that they might uphold the teachings/laws of men.
13. What is the purpose of the law? We all probably have our own ideas, and perhaps even widely accepted and taught views, but what does Scripture teach?
14. The law entered so that sin would abound/increase/overflow. Romans 5:20
15. We will state this again so we don’t forget… the purpose of the law is for sin to increase.
16. Through the law we become conscious of sin. Romans 3:20
17. Let’s remember that sin is okay to talk about, and it is important to talk about since it plays such a significant role in our lives.
18. What exactly is sin? Isn’t it doing bad things? (46)
19. Raise your hand if you have stopped sinning.
20. If you still struggle with sin and everybody else probably does too, it must be okay not to be perfect, right?
21. Does the Bible support this view?
22. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. 1 John 3:6
23. He who sins is of the devil. 1 John 3:8
24. Whoever has been born of God does not sin. 1 John 3:9
25. Whoever has been born of God cannot sin. 1 John 3:9
26. Whoever is born of God does not sin. 1 John 5:18
27. Consider carefully what these verses are saying… it seems impossible. As a result of these difficult verses, many interpreters of these verses say, “well as long as you don’t continue in the same types of sin, or keep on sinning, then you are okay”, or “We abide in Him when we don’t sin, but we don’t abide in Him when we do”.
28. Consider the following scriptures concerning these options: James 2:10; John 15:6, 10; 1 John 4:13, 15, 16.
29. What is the mystery of the Gospel or the mystery of Christ? Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 4:3; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:4, 9; Colossians 1:26, 27
30. So, the law was introduced, entered, or added that sin might increase or abound.
31. We deceive ourselves if we say that we have no sin. 1 John 1:8
32. We make God a liar if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10
33. We are born of God through faith, by grace, but our flesh is in bondage to sin. Paul describes flesh as, “body of death” and “carnal, sold under sin”. He stated that evil is present with him and nothing good dwells in the flesh. Romans 7:18; Matthew 26:41; Romans 8:8; Galatians 3:3; 5:17; Philippians 3:3; 1 Peter 3:21
34. We are not just flesh and are ultimately not at all flesh. Romans 8:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 4:16
35. Whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. John 8:34
36. Our flesh is a servant to sin. Romans 7:23, 25; Ecclesiastes 7:20
37. The Lord reveals the wretchedness of the flesh by giving us the law/His commands. Romans 5:20; Romans 11:32
38. The law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ. Galatians 3:24
39. Being born again means we are spiritually a new creation, but our flesh is still a certain age, is still made from dirt, and will still die. John 3:5, 6; 1 Peter 1:23; Psalm 103:14
40. If you don’t believe that your flesh is corrupt, and you believe you have an obligation to obey all of God’s laws, then gather all of God’s commands in the whole Bible and do them. Deuteronomy 28:58, 66; James 2:10; Psalm 19:7-9; Matthew 5:18-20; Luke 16:17; Romans 2:13; Romans 3:19; Galatians 3:10, 13
41. If you believe you have an obligation to fulfill God’s laws, then you have an obligation to the whole law, and will not be declared righteous until you have become perfect… and not just under the letter of the law, but the spirit of it as well. Please consider that you must also obey all of Jesus’ commands, such as loving others as He loves them. Deuteronomy 6:25; Romans 2:13; James 2:10; Romans 2:13; James 1:22; Romans 10:5; Matthew 5:48; John 13:34; Ephesians 2:8, 9
42. Therefore, no flesh will be justified in His sight, but righteousness comes to all and on all who believe. We are justified by true faith (the kind of faith that produces fruit, but do not confuse the source of this fruit- the fruit is an indication and is from God’s Spirit). Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:20, 21; Romans 3:28; Romans 7:14; Romans 8:3; James 2:24; Galatians 5:18, 22-25
43. The Israelites are a testimony to a human’s ability to obey God’s righteous decrees. Romans 3:20 This is not to make an excuse for the indulgence of the flesh, but to encourage closeness to the Lord, rest in Him, and the healing power of His love for our joy. Romans 6:1, 2; Romans 6:15
44. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. Galatians 3:13a
45. Jesus’ death on the cross is a testimony to our need for a savior.
46. Sin is defined by the Bible as lawlessness. 1 John 3:4
47. Since Christ fulfilled the law, there is no law left to sin against. Matthew 5:17; Colossians 2:14
48. Where there is no law there is no transgression. Romans 4:15
49. Sin is not imputed when there is no law. Romans 5:13
50. You are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14
51. Now we have been delivered from the law, and therefore delivered from sin. Since sin is lawlessness, a fulfilled law leaves sin dead. Romans 6:18; Romans 7:6
52. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account. Romans 4:8
53. New Testament law is also fulfilled by Jesus.
54. If New Testament commands are our responsibility, and not covered by Jesus’ blood, our new creation (inner man) would be sinning if we didn’t obey them all, since no sacrifice for sin would remain. James 2:10 The inevitable consequence of this limited atonement would be condemnation. Romans 8:1
55. If Jesus only died for O.T. law, who will save us from the sins we commit tomorrow against N.T. law? And why would Jesus drag O.T. law into the New Testament? Additionally, the Old Testament commands are all over the New Testament. The old and new covenants are not separated between the Old Testament and New Testament. The old and new covenants are separated by Jesus’ blood, once for all… they are separated by earning or receiving salvation/righteousness.
56. What is the major difference between Christianity and other world religions?
57. Cursed is the man who makes flesh his strength. Jeremiah 17:5
58. We shouldn’t wrestle against flesh, but against spiritual hosts of wickedness. Ephesians 6:12; 2 Corinthians 10:3, Galatians 5:16-18
59. In Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5
60. We cannot bring our flesh with us, to be in Christ where there is no sin. If we are in Him and there is no sin in Him, what are the implications for us? 1 Corinthians 15:50
61. We cannot abide in Him and bring sin with us just like we wouldn’t impute the sin of our flesh onto our newly-righteous spirit/ our born-again life/ our inner man who desires to do what is right. Romans 7; 1 John
62. How do I know the corruption of my flesh isn’t staining my born-again spirit?
63. When I do what I will not to do, it is no longer me sinning. Romans 7:16-17
64. When I do what I will not to do, it is no longer me sinning. Romans 7:20
65. If a new creation were to (or could) sin, it would no longer be new. 2 Corinthians 5:17
66. Therefore, our flesh is corrupt (which cannot inherit God’s kingdom) but we are credited righteousness by grace through faith. 2 Peter 2:10; Romans 4:5
67. Be reconciled to God by His free gift to you of His own faithfulness to Himself and not by your flesh’s faithfulness to Him. 2 Corinthians 5:20-21, John 6:63
68. When our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, told Martha there is only one thing that is needed, He wasn’t being facetious. Luke 10:42
69. Remain in Him. If we hold on to His law/His commandments and uphold them, cherish them, guard them, and retain them, we will remain in Christ. John 15:10; 1 John 2:7, 24
70. Keep does not mean obey. Check out the original language and consider these scriptures: 1 John 2:7, 2:24, 2:3-6.
71. We are free from sin and slaves of righteousness (willing slaves by faith). Romans 6:18
72. Luther wrote, “Any Christian whatsoever, who is truly repentant, enjoys plenary remission from penalty and guilt.” We can approach God with the confidence He has given us in His Son. Our consciences can stay clean despite our continually wicked flesh. Ephesians 3:12; Hebrews 10:22
73. Remember that God has given you His purity and this as a free gift. 1 John 3:3
74. What is our responsibility today? To keep His commands. (69, 70)
75. Jesus died for sin once for all… covering our lifetime of sin. If He only died for past sins or specifically repented sins, we would be condemned (in His perfect righteousness) for future sins or sins we forgot to, or will forget to, repent for. This is an “if” that exists only in fear. Hebrews 10:14
76. When we believe in Jesus Christ, sin exists only in our flesh. We cannot prevent it entirely from living in our flesh. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. This statement in 1 John 1:8 will still be written in the Bible tomorrow. Romans 7:14, 17-25; Ecclesiastes 7:20
77. God eradicated sin for us when He made us new. Are we okay if we do our best? I think we are okay if we seek the truth and find faith in Jesus Christ. As far as works go, our best is not good enough… meaning our human effort doesn’t achieve perfection or righteousness. However, we may have to try it to believe it. How do we know we need a Savior until we know we need a Savior?
2 Corinthians 5:17; Romans 9:16, 32; Philippians 3:8, 9
78. We should get our “act together”, but the best we do is “rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.” John Lynch’s message to The Navigators John 15:5; John 15:3
79. We are supposed to let our light shine… what is our light? 2 Corinthians 4:5-7 Concerning our behavior, man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7
80. 1 John 3:6 boldly states that whoever is born of God cannot sin because he is born of God… we know that this is not true of our flesh, as flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but the part of us that is born of God is a new creation in Christ Jesus. The old has passed, and the new is truly new and cannot sin. We are brand new, forever sinless, creatures in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:50, 2 Corinthians 5:17
81. We have victory over sin in Christ, not because we stop our flesh from sinning but because Christ ended sin in us. Christ is effective. Romans 8:10 Skip a few…
95. God is love. He has given us Himself. We are loved!

I dont understand. about half way through I thought you were heading toward a Watchman Nee kind of philosophy, but when I got to the end, I was lost.

Are you trying to say that we have 2 natures in us and the one nature that sins will be destroyed but the other nature is going to heaven? I may be getting it wrong, but that would sound a little gnostic to me. Or are you saying we have 2 natures and we are to follow after one as opposed to the other?

70. Keep does not mean obey. Check out the original language and consider these scriptures: 1 John 2:7, 2:24, 2:3-6. verse 6 sounds like we are supposed to obey. what else could it mean to walk as he walked?


81. We have victory over sin in Christ, not because we stop our flesh from sinning but because Christ ended sin in us. Christ is effective. Romans 8:10 Skip a few… It doesn't say Christ ended sin in us. If you continue on down in this passage to verse 13 is says if you live by the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Note, he wrote this imediately after verse 10 and was addressing the same people.

After rereading my post, it sounds like I'm critiqueing your post, but I am just trying to figure out what you are saying.

Jacob,

I don't take offense to your questions and I appreciate your feedback. These principles didn't make sense to me until recently.

What I am saying is that we are, by faith, a born-again spirit in flesh. This is the current state of a follower of Christ. The flesh will die (as we have observed) and profits nothing (John 6:63). This speaks something to me concerning my fleshly obedience. I will trade my righteousness for Christs' any day. I am a new creature in Christ and I remain in Him by faith. If I jumped in and out of Him, based on my performance, I may get caught out of Him when the end comes. In Romans 7, Paul explains that when I agree that the law is good, it is no longer me (new creation) sinning, but sin living in me (that is, in my flesh). As far as which "nature" we should follow, I believe Romans 8:3-8 explains this well. (The flesh, or mind set on the flesh, or carnal mind is hostile toward God and cannot subject itself to the law of God)

Concerning obedience tied to walking as He walked, I think you pinpointed the crux. 1 John 5:1 states that if we believe Jesus is the Christ, then we are born of God. 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 3:9 state that those born of God don't and cannot sin (see orignial language or word for word translation/NASish/KJV vs. thought for thought/NIVish translation). The mystery here is that those who abide in Him are born-again spirits, not flesh- our flesh cannot abide in Christ... it is carnal and wretched- there is no sin in Him. Our born-again spirit or new creation abides in Christ through faith and is credited with the walk that Jesus walked. Additionally, we walk by faith, not by sight (2 Corinthians 5). Who can be as righteous as Jesus? Who would dare to elevate themselves in conceited pride to claim this? If we could, He wouldn't have had to die. If I try to add my walk in this life in the flesh to Christ's righteousness, then His righteousness has no value in my life. That is like getting circumcised to earn my salvation.

Concerning Christ ending sin in us... if we are a new creation, and all things are new, and we believe in Jesus and are therefore God's children and therefore sin no more (spiritually), the conclusion is that Christ ended sin for our born-again spirits. We are in Christ where there is no sin... we died to sin- this doesn't mean we try harder to stop our sin (in the flesh)... it means we literally died to sin- it's over. He ended sin in us (this is a conclusion statement worded by me, and there is no scripture that states it this specific way, but I think it is similar to claiming that when we die, our life has ended). Putting to death the deeds of the body is not stating, "stop the sin of your flesh". Let's look at the verses in context... Romans 8:10 states that the body is dead because of sin, but if Christ is
in you, your spirit is alive. Then it states that HE will give life to our mortal bodies because His Spirit lives in our mortal bodies. HE bears fruit in our life and HE gets the credit.

Did I explain this adequately? My perspective is limited and I only know how to explain things the way they make sense to me.

God bless Jacob and thanks again for your response.

dseusy, what is spirit? what is flesh? Are you a spirit? If so, were you, as a spirit, capable of sin before you knew Christ? Or are spirits inherently incapable of sinning?

If Christ freed your spirit from sin, but not your physical flesh, what advantage is that? Are you okay in the sight of God if you commit adultery or visit prostitutes?

Perhaps I am greatly misunderstanding, but right now it seems that your "95 theses" are a justification for continuing in sin. For there's nothing you can do to stop, and Christ has not delivered your physical flesh from sin ---- only your spirit.

I must admit that it sounds gnostic to me, also. The gnostics considered the physical flesh to be "evil", and that they could never be free from it until they became a pure spiritual being after death. One group of gnostics taught that since your flesh is evil, it doesn't matter what you do with it. Live a promiscuous life; your spirit will not be harmed! The other group taught that since your flesh is evil, you must deny it in every way. You must cease to copulate with your wife. If you are unmarried, you must never marry. You must abstain from meat, etc., etc.

The angel announced to Joseph the reason Jesus came ---- not to cover up sin but to save people from sin itself:

You shall call his name "Jesus" (Saviour), for He will save his people from their sins.

Paul, Peter, and the author of Hebrews also give us the real reason for the death of Christ. It's all about delivering us from sin (not just our spirits)

I Peter 2:24 He himself endured our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Paidion,

Thank you for sharing... I really like your choice, "paidion", for unless we become like these, we cannot enter the Kingdom of God

I'll do my best to reply to your well thought out questions...

I believe Romans 7:9-12 explains that I had spiritual life before the law, but when the law came, sin came alive and my spirit died- the commandment which was to result in life proved to result in death for me, as sin killed me. Paul states this in past tense, that sin killed him, but we know he wrote this- so it wasn't his flesh that died. His spirit died, but then was born again through faith.

I cannot show you a verse that answers the question of whether or not a spirit is incapable of sinning, but I know that a spirit born of God (a new creation, a Romans 7 inner man) cannot sin per 1 John 3:9 & 5:18.

What advantage is there in God liberating my spirit, even if my flesh is wretched? If this life truly is a vapor, as the Bible states and you have likely experienced (the older I get the faster it goes) we are always close to the "end". There is great advantage to being free from the deeds of our flesh (Romans 7:17,20) and knowing we have hope. Besides, I find that the more the Gospel is revealed and the more I understand, the more fruit naturally pours through my flesh from His Spirit (Galatians 2:20).

Paidion, I am okay in the sight of God because of Christ. And true faith will naturally produce fruit. Have you ever committed adultery as a Christian? Not the old-school adultery, but the righteous standard of adultery... if you even LOOK at a woman with lust... "If any of you is without sin, let him be first" to be justified by God. Christ brings healing and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 states, "may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely and may your spirit, soul, and body be preserved complete without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Our spirit is credited righteousness, His fruit pours through our flesh, and our soul upholds/guards/keeps the commands of God. My body is a temple for the Holy Spirit, but it is still made from dirt. Canvas for the tent, stones for the temple, and flesh as a temple profit nothing (John 6:63). It is the Spirit that gives life. The pharisees wished to cleanse the outside of the cup... I want no part in that any longer. The inside of my cup has been cleaned by Christ and the outside will produce works in keeping with salvation, but it is He who works in me.

I wouldn't need a "95 Theses" to justify sin. If I wanted to sin, I would just do it. If I wanted to justify sin, I wouldn't have poured my life into trying to stop sinning and meditating on and memorizing God's Word. I hate sin.

The mystery here is in that I am not my flesh... how do you interpret Romans 7:25? Paul states that his flesh serves the law of sin. I am not justifying sin, I am claiming the promises of God.

Paidion, have you sinned since you became a Christian? How do you reconcile that? What are we going to add to Christ's atonement on our behalf?

If the gnostics taught that since your flesh is evil it doesn't matter what you do with it and they gave the okay for a promiscuous life, they contradict God's Word. If they prescribe harsh treatment of the body, they contradict God's Word. Paul covers these views.

If it is our responsibility to remove the sin from our flesh, did Jesus die to kick-start our righteous living? Are we Mormons without some of the LDS doctrines? Is forgiveness complete or not? Is God's love a love earned? God is love... can God be earned? No, He gave Himself to us.

Jesus did save people from sin itself... He died that we might have life- He didn't give us a free gift so we could go abuse it in lewdness. He gave us a free gift because He knew we needed it among other purposes.

You say that Paul gives the real reason of Christ's death to deliver US from sin, and not just our spirits or inner man... how do you interpret these?

Romans 7:14 "For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin."
Romans 7:20 "But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."
Romans 7:24 "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?"
Galatians 3:3 "Are you so foolish ? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
Ephesians 6:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Romans 7:22-23 "For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members."

I die to sin, not by stopping it, but by living to the righteousness that Christ freely credited to me.
I no longer live for myself and I take no joy in the sin of my flesh, but it still happens (Romans 7:15).
Christ is my Lord and I no longer live but Christ lives in me.
I am zealous for good deeds. Then why don't you do them, you ask... I answer, do you? I started focusing on the plank in my own eye and realized that there were more planks than I could handle and that I needed a Savior. However, I do do good deeds, but God gets the credit.
He did away with sin by giving me a new spirit.

Paidion, I am hopeless if I have to go back to living under the law... mustering up as much righteousness as I can and asking God if I did a good enough job- His law already shows me the only way to please Him is by faith (Hebrews 11:6).

We have completely different bases of thinking, and so a total paradigm change is necessary, a whole revolutionary change in thinking, in order for either of us to make sense of the other's position.

I say, that if you die to sin, then you stop sinning. Otherwise, why call it a death? If you don't stop sinning, you are not dead to sin, but alive to it.

dseusy wrote:The mystery here is in that I am not my flesh... how do you interpret Romans 7:25? Paul states that his flesh serves the law of sin. I am not justifying sin, I am claiming the promises of God.

It seems that you, as well as many others, misunderstand what Paul is saying in Romans 7. They assume Paul is talking about himself. Some say, "If the great apostle Paul was not able to overcome sin, how can I be expected to overcome it?"

Do you really think Paul's position was, "So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin"? I don't think so. Paul is speaking of a person who does not avail himself of the enabling grace made available through Christ. Without this enabling grace, I can serve God only with my mind, but I can't actually carry it out in practice. The man without Christ's enablement can only bemoan, "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" and the answer? "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

In chapter 8, Paul explains how different it is for the man who has been set free from sin by Christ:

For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

The writer of Hebrews, as I quoted before, states: "Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself." It doesn't say that Christ sacrificed himself to do away with sin in the human spirit, but to do away with sin ---- period.

Paul made clear the purpose of God's enabling grace in Titus 2:

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and pious lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. Titus 2:11-15

This enabling grace through Christ who gave himself for us, redeems us from all lawlessness. ---- The whole man --- not just "the spirit". He gave Himself to "purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works." We do these good works with our human flesh ---- not with our spirit. As Paul says, we must "put to death the deeds of the body" if we are to live. If something is "put to death" it no longer operates. How can we say that we have put to death the deeds of the body if we are still living in sin?

Whether or not I have sinned since becoming a disciple of Christ is irrelevant to this discussion. If we are on the narrow road which leads to righteousness, then we are being saved from sin. Salvation is a process, and it will continue until we are completely delivered from wrongdoing and are walking in righteousness.

He who began a good work in you will be completing it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:6)

God's work in us is a work in progress.

Romans 8:29 indicates that we are pre-appointed to be conformed to the image of his Son. Jesus wasn't righteous only in his spirit. He was rightous in his flesh. God's purpose is that we be righteous as Jesus was righteous.

Jesus said to his disciples, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48). If it is impossible to be perfect, Jesus would not have asked it of his disciples. He wouldn't require them to do the impossible.

What follows is a sort of allegory using Romans 7:12-8:4 to describe my handwriting problem. I think this may help us to understand that Paul was not writing about his present condition, but about what it would be like if he did not have Christ to enable him to overcome sin, and live righteously.

Chapter 7
12 Handwriting is important, and instruction in it is good.
13 So did that which is good cause my illegible handwriting? No way. It was the natural lack within me (perhaps my left-handedness and my lack of artistic talent) which made the scrawl come out, through the good instruction, in order that my poor handwriting truly be shown to be a scrawl, and through the handwriting instruction given to me, shown to be what it really is --- absolutely illegible.
14 I know that handwriting instruction is good. But I am a scrawler.
15 I do not understand my own actions.
16 For I do not write the way I want, but I write the very way that I hate. Now even though I do not write the way I want, I agree that the handwriting instruction I received was good.
17 So then it is not that I do it deliberately, but the weakness that dwells within me is the cause.
18 For I know that no ability for handwriting dwells within me. I can will to write beautifully, but I cannot do it.
19 For I do not write the way I want, but the illegible scrawl that I do not want, is what I do.
20 Now if I scrawl in a way I don't want, it is not I doing it deliberately, but the lack of skill within me.
21 So I find it to be a law of my nature, that when I want to write beautifully, an ugly scrawl comes out.
22 For in my inmost self, I delight in the thought of writing beautifully and legibly,
23 But I see in my nature another law at war with the law of my mental desire, making me captive to my weakness and my illegible handwriting.
24 Wretched man that I am! What can deliver me from this inability to write legibly?
25 Thank God for my computer!
26 So then, I of myself (without my computer), write beautifully and legibly with my mind, but with my hand, I write an illegible scrawl.

Chapter 8
1 There is now no criticism for those who write documents using a word processor and printer.
2 For the power of the word processor in my computer has set me free from the law of my incapable hand.
3 For the computer has done what handwriting instruction weakened by my inability could not do; by means of a word processor and printer, it did away with
my illegible scrawl,
4 in order that the requirements for writing documents may be fulfilled in us who write not with our incapable hands, but with a word processor and printer.

We do have a completely different basis of thinking.

I like the handwriting illustration, not because I agree with it, but because it is witty, funny, and just plain fun to read.

So, Paidion, is your stance that Jesus died for us, not to impart righteousness to us, but so that we could obey our way to perfection?

This is exactly what LDS teach. Spencer Kimball in the "Miracle of Forgiveness" turns forgiveness and the Gospel into an object to be earned.

The Gospel, forgiveness, and mercy have no place under law. Please consider that those under law don't realize they are under it. The law demands performance and makes love shallow.

Obeying our way to perfection is a law-abiding avenue, which reveals the motive, "I must make myself perfect". I submit for your consideration that Christ is of no value to those to seek to establish their own righteousness. I want to quote the hundreds of scriptures that illustrate our brokenness, but I'm concerned about your preconceived interpretations of them... I don't write this as an attack, but as an exhortation to give real thought to your stance. James tells us to be doers of the law. If we stumble at one point, we are guilty of breaking it all (James 2:10). If you ever slip, under law, you are back at the starting point... how do you expect to become righteous? You are adding your deeds to Christ and nullifying His sacrifice on your behalf.

If sin is lawlessness, and 1 John states that we have sin (1 John 1:8), how do you expect to abide by the law to perfection? Even if you accomplish the letter of it, as has some, we will never accomplish the spirit of it. If we could, Jesus didn't have to die!

Galatians 3
2-3
"This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith ? 3 Are you so foolish ? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"

8-10
"The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU. So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse ; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM"

Paidion,

If you take scripture seriously, gather all of God's commands in the New Testament and take James 2:10 literally. Accomplish this which you have set before me and become righteous in your own eyes.

As for me, I am broken, and cannot fulfill the law on my own. The burden is too heavy and Jesus said His burden is light and that I can take His yoke upon myself... this light burden, this GOOD NEWS, is my only hope.

How do you interpret these?

Mary & Martha: If the object was to make ourselves perfect, why did Jesus rebuke Martha? She was performing a good deed, while Mary was sitting down.
Jesus' answer to, "What must we do to do the works which God requires?" The works which God requires is to trust in the One whom the Father sent.
"When I am weak, I am strong." This verse makes no sense to the performers. How can I become perfect and be weak at the same time?
The sinner who was justified over the one who says, "I do what is right." Luke 18:9-17
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit." Titus 3:5
"as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE" Romans 3:10
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight ; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Romans3:28
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness" Romans 4:5

Paidion wrote:
Jesus said to his disciples, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48). If it is impossible to be perfect, Jesus would not have asked it of his disciples. He wouldn't require them to do the impossible.

I agree. He made it possible...

We must be perfect as God is, but how do we get there?

"And do not enter into judgment with Your servant, For in Your sight no man living is righteous." Psalm 143:2

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes." Deuteronomy 10:17

"And the heavens declare His righteousness, For God Himself is judge." Psalm 50:6

"My mouth shall tell of Your righteousness And of Your salvation all day long; For I do not know the sum of them. I will come with the mighty deeds of the Lord GOD; I will make mention of Your righteousness, Yours alone." Psalm 71:15-16

"Thy righteousness also, O God, is very high; Thou who hast done great things, O God, who is like unto thee?" Psalm 71:19

"Who is like the LORD our God, Who is enthroned on high, Who humbles Himself to behold The things that are in heaven and in the earth?" Psalm 113:5-6

"For I proclaim the name of the LORD; Ascribe greatness to our God! "The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He."
Deuteronomy 32:3-4

"The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting." Psalm 119:160

"The LORD is righteous in all His ways And kind in all His deeds." Psalm 145:17

"Do not be excessively righteous and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?" Ecclesiastes 7:16

"Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins." Ecclesiastes 7:20

"But the LORD of hosts will be exalted in judgment, And the holy God will show Himself holy in righteousness." Isaiah 5:16

"Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame. In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory." Isaiah 45:21-25

"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20

"But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Matthew 9:13


Perhaps there is good news. Perhaps it is easier than our pride has lead us to believe.

Check out Romans 5:17. What is the righteousness described as? And in context, what does vs. 18 say concerning being justified? What kind of obedience or what act of righteousness results in justification before God?

Romans 10:3