Teaching - Gifts vs. Roles

[Guest]

Could someone enlighten me on the distinction between "roles" and "positions" of Teachers or other non-elder positions within the church in light of Mathew 23:8-10? Are there such non-elder "positions?" or does the bible speak of these things such as teaching and prophecying as gifts to be exercised and not as roles where there would be positional authority?

In other words,

• How do you square Matt 23:8-10 with Ephesians 4:11?
  How do roles differ from gifts?

Matthew 23:8-10: Don't be called Teachers or Leaders

Ephesians 4:11-12: And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ.

Are the people giving our Sunday School lessons each week intended to be any more of a teacher than someone else in the class who might also have a gift of teaching (or at least an ocassional gifting)? The practice today seems to exclude (or at least dampen) the free exercise of gifts by all but one or two who have "positions" of Teacher, and they tend to have positional authority to determine what is done in the name of the church body.

[Guest]

I apologize in advance for the brevity of this answer but maybe I can jog someone else to add to the conversation. The comments by Jesus in Matt. 23 seem to be an instruction to his disciples to seek to be a peacemaker by not desiring to assert themselves by desiring authority and recognition over others in the way that was commonly desired by the Pharisees. Paul's comments in Ephesians are addressed to those who understand that teachers within the church always teach from a position or attitude of servanthood. A Christian teacher must have a genuine desire to first serve God and then to actively demonstrate that desire by didactically instructing others. Since 1 Timothy 3:1 indicates that eldership must be desired and since 3:2 requires the ability to teach if one is an elder, then you can say that elders taught and there are several other scriptures that would indicate their attitude must be one of shepherds of the flock with no desire to lord it over their brethren.

Titus 2:3-5 gives some instruction regarding the teaching responsibilities of aged women and, since Paul does not speak of the church as a building with walls but as a body of believers, then we could conceivably say that aged women have the work of teaching before them just as elders do though the information taught may not always be the same.

Sunday School teachers are another question which may not be directly addressed in scripture since there does not appear to be any command to have Sunday Schools. But, that skirts the issue and isn't helpful to your question, is it? So, the best that I can say, having been a Sunday School teacher, is that they should listen to Paul's instruction to Timothy in 1 Tim. 4:12-16 which I'll let you look up. Always, always the teacher must remember that the attitude must be one of servanthood as he speaks to an audience of Christ's disciples. This can be difficult as the teacher reads and learns more scripture and doctrine. Compliments come and you have to strive to remain a humble servant.

I assume you have a teacher who may appear to be a little authoritarian. That may be but, then again, God may want them in that position. So, if they ask for a week off, volunteer. Understand that you'll put 8-10 hours into studying to present a 40 minute lesson. And someone may ask you a question that takes 10 minutes to answer and you didn't budget that 10 minutes into your presentation so now you've got to cut something that took you 3 hours to prepare to teach. And you'd better bounce your lesson off your wife the day before or you'll look back and realize she's the one asking the 10 minute question. After all, teachers are held to a higher standard (James 3:1).

livingink

[Guest]

Forgive the length of this post -- I really have been struggling with the proper spiritual response in this situation and ask for some practical (and especially biblical) advice. It's a lot of information, but it's probably not a terribly unique situation.

I do appreciate the post -- you're right, though, that it didn't exactly answer my question. Your suggestion that I volunteer is interesting -- such a volunteering is actually the genesis of my posting. I attend a fairly large church, and our "Sunday School" (Bible Study) classes are fairly hierarchical and intended to serve many of the functions of a church in their own right, but not to the exclusion of attending worship services. It is useful to create smaller groups of people you can fellowship with, though that introduces another interesting thought as to the wisdom of ANY formal subdivision of the body of Christ (any such division was considered by AW Tozer to be evil). Anyway, I never even questioned this fairly typical setup even as I have served as Director or other leadership "positions" in the past.

Teaching has always been seen as a position of spiritual authority under which we "lesser leaders" were to be subject (even when non-elders), and it is this formal "position" that I am inquiring about. Teachers were (and are) identified and chosen by the official ministers (typically by each ministry - in our case the Young Married Minister), which I would consider an officiating elder. Directors and other leadership are all seen (even to the point of having organizational flowcharts) under the headship of one or both of the teachers (depending on whether one of the teachers is female).

In the recent situation giving rise to this inquiry, I was asked by our Director (actually by his wife who was one of our former teachers) to take over a newsletter for our class. As part of this newsletter, we would provide brief summaries of the lesson, upcoming events, etc. for those who missed class -- pretty standard fare. The newsletter evolved over time and I began to elaborate on the lessons and started calling it a summary and "supplement," filling in teaching on verses skipped of necessity or providing alternative viewpoints and historical background for topics presented, etc. I had resisted doing this and really felt I was doing it out of obedience and felt God was using me as I had never let Him do before and I had an overwhelmingly positive response. People really seemed to be growing and benefitting from the additional material. As you indicated, it took an extraordinary amount of time and energy and prayer each week, and I most definitely gained more than any one else in my preparation.

Our leadership loved it and praised it, and encouraged me (even our Minister). That is, at least, until we reached the third rail of spirituality -- tithing (maybe a coincidence in timing -- maybe not). I took great care in this lesson to be honest as to the various views, but to express my own personal view and especially to note that it was contrary to the lesson but there was freedom to believe other views, etc. Apparently one of our two teachers had a real problem with this view, and raised an objection not just to this point of view but also to the very idea that anyone other than the teacher provide teaching to the class.

I was prepared to receive criticism as to the subject matter, but I was completely taken aback by the suggestion that teaching was a position and non-teachers shouldn't do it. While someone certainly needs to have authority to correct bad doctrine, this limitation on any such teaching strikes me as being impractical (what if a small group does a bible study, the director exegetes a scripture before class on volunteering, etc) But, more importantly -- in my view, this is a limitation of the free exercise of gifts, and elevates the wrong thing in the church (actually, I think -- along with Tozer -- that this mindset has done more than anything else to limit spiritual growth in the church). The Director (who is a close personal friend who I share a bible study with) asked me to quit doing the summaries, etc., until we could work it out. He agreed that there was nothing wrong with the substance, but he was in a bind since he was under the headship of the teacher.

I explained to my director friend that I would stop temporarily to avoid division, but I didn't think he had any obligation to carry the position of this teacher. I also suggested that unless our elder/minister agreed, he should consider asking the teacher for some biblical basis for this position. Subsequently, this teacher brought the issue to our minister and he contacted our director to tell him to limit teaching to the teachers. He told our director he had no problem with anything taught, and believed I clearly had the gift of teaching, but that until I was appointed as such, etc., it was just not appropriate.

I have submitted myself to the leadership of our minister (as elder) and discontinued the studies, though I disagree vehemently with the resolution and would myself have brought us together and discussed together (as it is, I have no idea even which teacher has lost my respect in this situation, which affects my relationship with both of them). I feel that satan has won this battle, and we are now settling back down into a comfortable spoon-fed 20 minute lesson, which seems to once again suit folks as sufficient.

[Guest]

OK. That's more specific. I'm afraid things get a little convoluted when we try to apply scripture to some modern congregations or denominations, such as your own--please forgive me for that, because it doesn't really appear that the organization is set up as Paul described it. Knowing that Jesus was head of the church, we know that all authority was given to him and from him it was delegated first to the apostles and then to elders living in various localities. If there must be some "formality" to teaching, then we know that they were the formal teachers. I'm not sure that your teachers correlate exactly to the teachers that Paul described. But, they apparently think they do. As such, they have a responsibility to your congregation to outline and present scriptural instruction on the subject of tithing since at least one has described what it is not. You, on the other hand, must now balance Jesus' Matthew 5 teachings on meekness and peacemaking. There is a time to serve God somewhat more vocally than others while doing it non-assertively but with a deep concern that the remainder of your congregation is instructed in such a way that it seeks righteousness. I don't believe that the body is well served by sweeping an issue under the rug.

livingink

[Guest]

it doesn't really appear that the organization is set up as Paul described it.

True, but I think this is largely true in most churches today.

The question before I approach our minister on the subject is really whether I am correct in suggesting the teaching gift is not a position and that he should seriously consider the effect of limiting the gifts to a select few is especially of teaching as they arise even briefly in a brother.

[Guest]

I wonder if they will maintain that only those with the gift of giving should be allowed to give? (Not holding breath.)

[Guest]

I wonder if they will maintain that only those with the gift of giving should be allowed to give? (Not holding breath.)

Seriously, this is precisely the question -- is there something fundamentally different about teaching? Is it both a gift and a position? Or just a gift (albeit an elevated one) just like the others?

Is it....

Ephesians 4:11-12: And He gave some gifts so they could [serve the positions of] apostles, and some [to serve as] prophets, and some [to serve as] evangelists, and some [to serve as] pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ.

or

Ephesians 4:11-12: And He gave some [gifts to act as] apostles, and some [gifts to assist them in] prophetizing, and some [gifts to help them] evangelize, and some [gifts to help them] preach and teach, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ.

[Guest]

Hello Darin,

I did some further study this past weekend plus the past 2 days and I believe the answer to the last question would be "both". There is a very good discussion of your question in Wayne Grudem's "Systematic Theology". My copy is copyright 1994 and the relevant chapters are #52 and #53 Gifts of the Holy Spirit. In several instances he addresses teaching. In short, he points out that everyone to some degree is instructed to teach but that delineating when a general, natural gift becomes a spiritual gift is often more difficult. The book evidently is available as a download for a fee and I can give you what is listed in my copy if you are interested. You are probably much more adept with computers than I so you may be able to locate it more easily. Rather than trying to summarize very poorly what he states very well I will wait to see if you are interested in reading his summary. I would be glad to discuss this further once you've had time to look at this.

livingink