How Do You Pray for the Sick?

[Guest]

Do you believe that God will heal someone if it isn't his will to do so?

I do, of course. I'm an open theist!

You say that as if it is something to be proud about. Don't let it get you down though, I'll pray for you.
D.

[Guest]

It didn't occur to me to be proud of it. Notwithstanding, I am certainly not ashamed of it, either.

What I said was my feeble attempt to kid around a bit. In an earlier post, Michelle exclaimed, "How open theistic!". I didn't think she was being serious, and so I sort of got in on the kidding-around mood.

I held many of the views which are now ascribed to "open theism" decades ago before there was ever such a category. But it's like any other label. Put a label on a person, put him in a box, and you can dismiss him, without having to deal with what he says.

[Guest]

What I said was my feeble attempt to kid around a bit. In an earlier post, Michelle exclaimed, "How open theistic!". I didn't think she was being serious, and so I sort of got in on the kidding-around mood.

I was joking as well (as I tried to indicate with the ). I do think that there is a very real difference in how Open Theists and Calvinists approach prayer though. I think that Open Theists are much more prone to approach suffering as something that God is not acting in or using but reacting to. That is particularly the case if you accept Open Theism as a response to the "problem of evil". Makes me wonder if the Word-Faith crowd are more open to Open Theism or not. I don't know, but I can see where this may be the case.
D.

[Guest]

thanks for the encouraging words, DJ. i think we are pretty much on the same page.

TK

[Guest]

Very interesting thread. As I was reading through, Hezekiak's healing came to mind and then I saw that Paidion had beat me to the punch.

I often pray for things and end with "thy will be done". I have also prayed in anguish, more than once, for God to change his will. When you see a beloved grandchild within hours of death, in enormous suffering, on life support for quite some time, it is rather easy to pray as Hezekiah did! (And God healed her - Praise God!) Whether God changed His mind I can not say.

Some of the healers make me want to gag. Its like Jesus is a lion - a circus lion and the healer is the trainer who makes Jesus "do tricks" and put on a show.

[Guest]

Homer wrote:

I have also prayed in anguish, more than once, for God to change his will. When you see a beloved grandchild within hours of death, in enormous suffering, on life support for quite some time, it is rather easy to pray as Hezekiah did! (And God healed her - Praise God!) Whether God changed His mind I can not say.

I'm glad you brought that up Homer. I was going to say something to this effect last night, but I didn't have time to post.

It seems to me that in scripture, humility and desparation very often accompanied Jesus' healings and such. Not simply believing that God can, but desparately wanting it as well.

Not saying this is a formula, but I would guess that a casual prayer, even in faith, is less impressive to God than one of humble desparation.

This is something I've identified in myself as seriously lacking in my prayers for others and it bothers me to no end. I know I can't muster it up myself and I sometimes shudder to think what God must do in my life to instill more compassion for others in me.

[Guest]

Hi All,

In response to the question, would God heal someone if it is not His will, both Paidion and Homer mentioned Hezekiah's case. We don't know what would have occurred, had Hezekiah died childless at the time of his illness. We do know that, in the fifteen-year extension that God gave him, he had a son, who became the worst king in Judah's history (2 Kings 21:9-17)--whose actions even were the occasion of the Babylonian captivity (2 Kings 24:3).

Healing may not always be a good thing for God's people. Remember (on another issue, not healing) the scripture says, "He gave them their request, but sent leanness into their soul" (Ps.106:15). Sometimes it can be very disastrous for God to give us what we want. It is good to follow Jesus' teaching and precedent of conditioning requests on "if it be your will."

Sickness is not the worst affliction that God's people may be called to suffer. Many forms of violent persecution, or even emotional devastation (as through a divorce or other loss) can be much worse. When my wife left the family, I would have gladly traded any physical disability for what I went through. Yet, despite many prayers of faith and fastings, by myself and Christians around the world, the situation never improved. I have come to see blessing in it, in retrospect, however, just as DJ sees in his condition.

[Guest]

Sickness is not the worst affliction that God's people may be called to suffer. Many forms of violent persecution, or even emotional devastation (as through a divorce or other loss) can be much worse.

That is a good point. I think many of us see things as "suffering" or "painful" when it is a pea under a mattress kind of discomfort in the big scheme of things. We get all anguished when we don't get that promotion or can't afford that extra car or 50 extra channels on our cable. We think we're poor even though we have incomes twice that of the poverty line and those under the poverty line live better than most of the population of the world. We're spoiled and "suffer" if we don't get what we want.

Here in America, we don't know real persecution. We think we are in anguish and cry out "Why me, Lord!" at the drop of a hat sometimes. People tell me what an example I am with my attitude in my condition, yet it is all a matter of perspective. I'm not in pain. I'm not dying. It isn't progressive. It isn't contagious. It could be so much worse. I asked the "Why" question myself for a while. That's normal. But spend a couple of hundred hours studying and listening to sermons on James chapter 1 and it quickly slaps you back into reality. Once you figure out that it isn't about you and focus on Him and His goals/desires instead, you can find peace, joy, and contentment in any situation. When it concentration is on the heartache, it doesn't go away. When the concentration is on Him, He helps you forget the heartache. It's like a new mom forgetting all the pain once she holds the new baby. The pain goes away. There is a lot of medicine in the "Think on these things" and "seek ye first" passages. They heal a lot of wounds. </sermon>
D.

[Guest]

Hey DJ,

Once again you have amazed me by doing a wonderful job of stating what is on my mind. I would just add to or amend one thing you said:

When it concentration is on the heartache, it doesn't go away. When the concentration is on Him, He helps you forget the heartache. It's like a new mom forgetting all the pain once she holds the new baby. The pain goes away. There is a lot of medicine in the "Think on these things" and "seek ye first" passages. They heal a lot of wounds.

In my experience, both with heartache and childbirth, it's not so much that the pain is gone or forgotten (if you want, I will recount both of my children's births for you, including the pain, even after a quarter of a century ) What I've felt in both situations is that the joy is so much more intense that the difficulties seem unimportant, although still present.

[Guest]

What an encouragement these posts have been!

And childbirth is such a wonderful example of enduring suffering because you know the joyful outcome that is before you. With sickness, if it is the Lord's will, it is a little harder (well, much harder in my opinion) to see the joy and character development that is on the other end. But it is still worth it just the same (if the sickness really is the Lord's will).