2 church questions

Post by **_Christopher** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:49 pm

Hi Homer,

Good question! You raise a great point and you may be right. However, it seems to me that if Paul was being absolute here, everyone would be disqualified, including himself, because one of the "musts" in the list is that a man be blameless. I don't know anyone who fits that description.

I only have time for this brief response right now, but I’d love to try and unpack this a little more tomorrow.

Lord bless.

Post by **_livingink** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:26 pm

Homer makes a good point. It does look like the overseer was specifically given the teaching function in the ekklesia. That seems to imply a gathering of believers being instructed in the doctrines taught by Christ. While the Lord added to the church daily, I take it that the gifted teacher was responsible for changing the will of the people from following false teaching to following the teachings of Christ. He was helping them repent, so to speak. But, I'm wondering if this takes us back to the functions of the overseer in the didactic assemblies as compared to the street corners.

Tonight I had to deliver a short speech about my occupation to a church group. Like Steve, I have no interest in being an overseer but some of what I said may sound like what a teacher would say to encourage believers toward godliness. So, what am I? (If you say I'm a knucklehead I'll understand)

May I also say that I'm finding this discussion quite helpful.

livingink

Post by **_livingink** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:59 pm

I found this explanation in the NT lexical aids of the Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible p.1626, word #2176 Episkopos--"The three words used for the office of the ministry, though having the same referent, each underscore a distinct aspect of it. Presbyteros stresses the dignity and maturity of the individual. It calls attention to the character of the man who should fill the office. Poimen , shepherd, emphasizes the work or task of the minister. He is to feed, protect, guide, and nurse the flock. Episkopos conveys the idea of authority and points to the ranking position of the official. It also involves his responsibility as one who (along with the other members of the presbyterion, council of elders) is accountable to God for the affairs of the church. In 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the "Shepherd and Overseer of your souls."

I'd welcome any further comments.

livingink

Post by **_Michelle** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:36 am

TK wrote:Michelle-- Shhhhhh!

TK

Rats! I just can't seem to keep quiet! I do fine for a couple of days, then something comes up and I just have to say something.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:36 pm

Just to offer a bit of clarification on the Greek question:

It is not just a matter of a difference in case. Rather two different Greek words are used. In verse one, the root word is "episkopā", while in verse two, the root word is "episkopos".

"Episkopos" (verse 2) means "overseer".
"Episkopā" (verse 1) means "oversight".

I think the following rendering of verse 1, would be about the most literal rendering possible:

If some person reaches out for some oversight, he longs for a good work.

I must point out that "he longs" is a single word in Greek, and that single word can also mean "she longs" or "it longs". So in English, the "he" should be understood as a grammatical "he" rather than a sexist "he".