The Narrow Path Ministries

I have struggled with this for a while. I have seen essentially two camps:

1) the prayer of faith requesting that a person be healed should not contain "hedging language" such as "if it be your will."

2) the prayer should always contain the hedging language.

I must admit that I now "cringe" when someone uses "hedging language" when praying for the sick. to me it pulls all confidence out of the prayer. if we believe God can and does want to heal (although admittedly not every time) should we not be confident and not hedge our bets?

As an aside, the people that i know who seem to get the most positive results praying for the sick (or even other things) don't use hedging language. Put it this way-- if I get sick, I know who I do(and who i dont) want to pray for me (if i had to pick and choose).

I am interested in all of your thoughts about this.

Thanks, TK

Or....

should we not just "pray" for people, but actually heal them? Like the apostles did... just tell them to walk, or tell the cancer to go away through the power of Jesus.

I guess that would be a third camp.

I have no idea what I think about this issue! (Although I would DEFINITELY rather someone pray for me with faith that God will do it, instead of just an "if it be Your will" prayer)

I'll give you the perspective of the sick. I was suddenly and permanently disabled back in March of '05 when my nervous system basically shorted out. I've done lots of praying and lots of people have prayed for me and even "laid hands" on me. Some have called for and claimed outright healing on my behalf. Others prayed for God's will to be done. I'm still parked in the emergency lane of the highway of life though. Why? Because healing me was not in His plan. If I claim, through faith and using His name, the healing of a person and it doesn't happen, it could cause me to question my faith and my God. I don't think that should ever be the case. Besides, when we put our wishes before His, are we not to a degree putting ourself in the driver's seat and asking God to be our co-pilot instead of Lord and bless our plans instead of using us in His? I don't see a "your will be done" as hedging at all. It is what Christ did in the garden prayer. God, here is what I'd like, but what I *really* want is for *your* will to be done. It is what we see in the "Lord's Prayer" taught to the disciples. "Thy will be done". It puts the emphasis on Him. When it comes to pass, He is glorified by the results. Far from being a prayer with no confidence, it is a prayer with no selfish motives or desires. Whether we say it or not, I believe it is the way we are *supposed* to pray.
D.

rae wrote:

should we not just "pray" for people, but actually heal them? Like the apostles did... just tell them to walk, or tell the cancer to go away through the power of Jesus.

I guess that would be a third camp.

i meant to mention this. thanks for bringing it up.

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DJ-

believe me i hear what you are saying, which is why this is a tough issue. i think the question is whether i, as the person praying, can have unhindered faith for the thing being prayed for if I am hedging my bet. i know you said that this is not hedging my bet, but in a sense it is. it seems to be a faith stealer. in the lord's prayer, Jesus was praying that, in general, that God's will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. it wasnt real specific. in gethsemane, i think Jesus already knew what the answer would be, which is why he said "not my will, but yours be done." when we are praying for the sick, we don't know the outcome, although we can narrow it down to 2 possible outcomes- healing or no healing. if i dont know the outcome, but know the outcome that I want, i dont want to be focused on the negative outcome. Jesus told us to pray confidently and not lose heart. doesnt he EXPECT us to ask boldly?

At the same time, I cannot completely disagree with what you have stated.

TK

Hi TK,

Forgive me, I don't really understand what you mean so I have a few questions.

When you talk about the phrase "if it be your will" being hedging language, I understand you to mean that uttering that phrase reveals a lack of inward faith. Is that what you mean?

Does this mean that God, listening and knowing your heart, thinks to himself 'hmm...I was going to do it until you put that hedging thing in there.' (how open theistic! ) Or ... could it mean that even if you don't utter the words but it's what is on your heart anyway, that attitude could hinder a healing?

Another possibility I thought you could be meaning is that the person uttering the "if it be your will" is just trying to save face by using the phrase so that in case God doesn't heal the sick person the praying person doesn't get blamed, which would show incomplete faith on his part, therefore guaranteeing that a healing cannot happen.

Do you believe that God will heal someone if it isn't his will to do so? I'm not sure. It's a struggle for me to understand why God allows any kind of suffering in life, but he does. I appreciate anyone who prays for me with faith that God can alleviate my suffering if he wants to, and that the best place for anyone to be is in his will, whatever that includes.

I agree with Rachel when she says she has no idea what to think about this issue. I'm not really sure either.

TK wrote:i think the question is whether i, as the person praying, can have unhindered faith for the thing being prayed for if I am hedging my bet. i know you said that this is not hedging my bet, but in a sense it is. it seems to be a faith stealer.

I guess it depends on what the "bet" is on, where the faith lies. If Christ is my Lord, I should desire what He wants. It is then that we are promised the desires of our heart. Asking that His will be done isn't showing a lack of faith. It is showing a willingness to His will. I'm still praying to God in faith, firmly believing that He hears and answer, but it is a change in focus, His desires over my own, and not a change in my faith.

in the lord's prayer, Jesus was praying that, in general, that God's will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. it wasnt real specific. in gethsemane, i think Jesus already knew what the answer would be, which is why he said "not my will, but yours be done."

Isn't that the ultimate in faith, knowing that God's will is going to be done?

when we are praying for the sick, we don't know the outcome, although we can narrow it down to 2 possible outcomes- healing or no healing. if i dont know the outcome, but know the outcome that I want, i dont want to be focused on the negative outcome.

The focus shouldn't be on them getting better or not anyway. It should be on Him. It doesn't matter what the specifics that we are praying for. It could be a job, health, finances, a relationship. There are always two outcomes. We get what we want or we don't. I should never be in a position where I might think that I got what I wanted because I had enough faith. That puts the emphasis on me. It's not about me. It's about Him. When I approach the throne with worship and reverence and ask for Him to mold me, break me, impact me however He sees fit, I can leave with peace. If I have the idea that if I pray the right way that X will happen and it doesn't, I'm left in a state of discouragement or doubt when it may very well be that God is working His plan out in the life of the sick person and it is my desire that is out of line, not my faith.

Jesus told us to pray confidently and not lose heart. doesnt he EXPECT us to ask boldly?

I believe He does. But I also believe that He wants us to want the proper things (His will over our own desires) and doesn't guarantee us that we get *our* desire if it is contrary to His own. The whole idea that if we are confident enough and "claim it" with enough faith that it will come to pass is something that I cannot find in Scripture. It reeks of planting a financial seed in the pocket of some television preacher to show that you are serious. Answers to prayer don't come because you are serious enough, word your prayer the right way, or have enough faith. They come at His prerogative and in line with His plan.

I think that there is too much "gimme gimme" praying going on today. That is not the pattern that Christ gave us in the Lord's prayer. When you analyze it, it is praising God, worshiping God, asking for forgiveness, asking for His will to be done, and claiming His promises to us. He is the focus, not our desires for a better job or healthier bodies. He wants to hear the desires of our heart, but the desire that He most wants to hear is that we are willing to obey and accept anything that He wants.
D.

Hi DJ,

I just want to say "amen" to your post.

Michelle

Hi michelle- good to see you back- i think it has been a while.

michelle wrote:

When you talk about the phrase "if it be your will" being hedging language, I understand you to mean that uttering that phrase belies a lack of inward faith. Is that what you mean?

it MIGHT mean that, yes.

michelle wrote:

Or ... could it mean that even if you don't utter the words but it's what is on your heart anyway, that attitude could hinder a healing?

it MIGHT mean that, yes.

michelle wrote:

Another possibility I thought you could be meaning is that the person uttering the "if it be your will" is just trying to save face by using the phrase so that in case God doesn't heal the sick person the praying person doesn't get blamed, which would show incomplete faith on his part, therefore guaranteeing that a healing cannot happen.

Again, yes, it MIGHT mean this. believe me, i am struggling with this.

michelle wrote:

Do you believe that God will heal someone if it isn't his will to do so?

boy, that's a sticky one. another way to ask this- can we change God's "mind" about something? whew-- not sure if i want to go there. Jesus seems to suggest that we can in the parable of the unjust judge, although i am not sure about this.

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DJ--

everything you wrote sounds so good that i cant really disagree with it. HOWEVER, Jesus taught a lot about prayer, and he seemed to teach that it is OK to ask for things, other than simply that our lives will line up with God's will. I believe that that is a given. in other words, if we are not walking in the spirit, i dont think we should expect our prayers to be answered. But Jesus, and the apostles, seem to teach that, as God's children, we are entitled to ask for things (and i dont mean yachts and BMWs- i am talking more about souls and healings and spiritual warfare and unselfish desires).

Now please understand that i AM NOT in the "name it and claim it" crowd, or the prosperity crowd. that stuff makes me gag. at the same time, i believe that not only are we supposed to pray for specific things, like healings, but that God EXPECTS us to do so.

Let me give you an example of a prayer that I recently heard prayed(this is a paraphrase):

"Lord, I would like to pray for X's back. He has been having a lot of pain. I pray that you would heal his back if it is your will. If it is not your will, help him to learn something through his suffering."

I have to be honest, if I was X (who was in an awful lot of pain) i would have been a little bummed out by that prayer.

TK

TK wrote:Now please understand that i AM NOT in the "name it and claim it" crowd, or the prosperity crowd. that stuff makes me gag. at the same time, i believe that not only are we supposed to pray for specific things, like healings, but that God EXPECTS us to do so.

I agree with you. I think that the only place where we may differ is that I see asking for His will to be done as something that can truly be the desire of your heart and not just a small print disclaimer attached to the end of something that changes the whole thing. Speaking from the perspective of someone that has been unable to work for 29 months as of 10am this morning, I am more grateful than I can express that God didn't miraculously heal me two and a half years ago. From a spiritual lesson and spiritual maturity standpoint, I'm much better off now than I was then. Materially and financially, it's rough. But in the long run, those things and that kind of "suffering" isn't the important stuff.

I also agree that prayers can emotionally abuse someone. My wife was going through a miscarriage one time. I returned to work from the doctor's office and was waiting until the test results came back the next day to see if she had in fact lost the baby (it was very early first-trimester stuff). A Christian co-worker of mine gave me a xeroxed page out of some book of prayers she had at her desk and told me to meditate on this specific prayer and say it with conviction and my wife would be healed. She was a sweet girl, but I found it very insulting and insensitive. First of all, the results of the test were not known, but the problem that had prompted them had already occurred. No amount of prayer was going to back up the clock. Second, it inferred that bad things don't happen to the truly faithful. Third, it took prayer and turned it into some kind of magical spell that smacked of popular Jabez Prayer theology. Reminded me of what I studied when I studied what was involved in occult and wiccan spells.

If I were to publicly pray for Bob's back, I'd pray that God would be with him during this time of pain, that God would help him endure this time of pain, that He would give the doctors wisdom in how to treat him, that Bob would soon be able to come out of this valley, and so forth. I would not suggest that Bob was in pain because God was trying to teach him a lesson. Lots of times that is how a "If it is not your will, help him to learn something through his suffering" kind of statement comes across. When my wife had her two miscarriages, the flippant "well it must have been God's will" kind of statements were just as hurtful as the "name it claim it" theology that my co-worker was getting at Creflo Dollar's church. When someone is in pain, emotionally or physically, they need emotional support and physical support as much as anything else. Whether you boldly claim a healing that leads to false hope or you take the opposite extreme and become fatalistic about everything, both can be abusive and not ministering. When someone is going through the emotional pain of a miscarriage, it isn't the time to pretend that abortion is the worst sin imaginable but a miscarriage is only as emotionally devastating as having the flu because it was "God's will" or "just wasn't meant to be".

A lot of it comes down to timing. When my wife and I are fighting over something, it isn't the best time to remind her about submissiveness unless I have enough super-glue to put the lamp back together. When Bob is going through physical pain or Beth an emotional suffering, getting all Calvinistic on them and suggesting that these pains are predestined for our benefit is not what is needed. We should pray for His strength to get through it and they they will be stronger after having come through it. We should offer them a strong arm to lean on and a soft shoulder to cry on. When it is still fresh and painful to the point of distraction of any kind of spiritual lesson, they need out empathy and physical support. Later, when emotions and pain subside, we can talk about spiritual lessons, spiritual applications, and recognize that some "sufferings" are nothing more than discomforts and us not getting what we want, that some "sufferings" are permanent or long-term things that we just need to deal with, and some "sufferings" from our perspective are not tribulations to tear us down, but trials to build us up.

Anyway, I think I've beat that one enough. I'll stop rambling now. I just thought it might be productive to add in the perspective of someone who went though and is going through a health crisis that is grateful that God didn't take me out of the furnace until I had learned what I needed from it and shone for Him while I was there. If God heals me, great. In the meanwhile though, I, like Paul, have learned to have peace and contentment in whatever state I am in. It isn't an easy lesson, but I'm glad I'm here.
D.

Another possibility I thought you could be meaning is that the person uttering the "if it be your will" is just trying to save face by using the phrase so that in case God doesn't heal the sick person the praying person doesn't get blamed, which would show incomplete faith on his part, therefore guaranteeing that a healing cannot happen.

Ah yes. If I pray, "If it is your will..." then you can't say my prayer went unanswered.

I've known "faith healers" who also have a way out, if the person prayed for, is not healed. They say that the person didn't have enough faith.
But both in Jesus' day and in the present day, people have been healed in response to prayer, who didn't have any faith at all.

I have heard "faith healers" demand that God heal someone ---- even trying to hold God to His promises. "Lord, heal her right now in the name of Jesus! Jesus you said, 'If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.' We know you don't lie Lord...etc. etc.etc." However, we are fools to think we can demand something from Jesus. He is not our slave. Hopefully, we are His slave!

We can ask God for something; we cannot demand it.

Do you believe that God will heal someone if it isn't his will to do so?

I do, of course. I'm an open theist! I believe that God responds to prayer, and changes His mind about what He will do.

The following account seems to be an example of His healing someone against His will to do so. Yahweh spoke through Isaiah that that Hezekiah would shortly die. God does not lie. So it must have been His will that Hezekiah should die.

In those days Hezekiah became sick and was at the point of death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him, and said to him, "Thus says Yahweh, ‘Set your house in order; for you shall die, you shall not recover.’" 2 Kings 20:1

Sounds pretty definite!

Hezekiah then prays, reminding Yahweh that he had walked faithfully before Him, and had done what was right in His sight. Then Yahweh spoke
again to Isaiah and told him to say:

... I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will heal you; on the third day you shall go up to the house of Yahweh. And I will add fifteen years to your life. I will deliver you and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria... 2 Kings 20:5,6

It appears that Yahweh's will was that Hezekiah should die. But He responded to Hezekiah's prayer, and kept him alive for another 15 years! Did He not do this by healing his illness?