Where are the prophets? How long, Lord?

[RICHinCHRIST]

After reading this psalm recently I began to think about the office of the prophet. I believe that the office still exists, since the Scriptures seem to indicate that the spiritual gifts will be in use until the Church is built up and unified and subsequently until the return of Christ (Eph 4:11-13, 1 Cor 1:7).

However, I've never heard of there being any prophets who were true prophets since the time of the early church. I know of the prophets and prophetesses described in the book of Acts, but is there any documentation of true prophets since then? When I say true prophet, I mean literal "thus saith the Lord" type of accuracy. Has the church gone so off course since the early centuries that God has just not sent us any prophets?

[Homer]

Hi Rich,

You wrote:

However, I've never heard of there being any prophets who were true prophets since the time of the early church. I know of the prophets and prophetesses described in the book of Acts, but is there any documentation of true prophets since then? When I say true prophet, I mean literal "thus saith the Lord" type of accuracy. Has the church gone so off course since the early centuries that God has just not sent us any prophets?

If 1 Cor. 1:7 is about outward spiritual gifts in particlar, especially the office of prophet, why would they be gifted with this and not any churches today, if being off course is the criteria? Paul seemed to think the Corinthians were pretty far off course.

Why would we need prophets to give us "thus sayeth the Lord" statements when we have received all we need from Jesus and His apostles:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1. God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2. has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

We have far better than the Corinthians; we have the words of Jesus and the Apostles in compact form that we can take with us wherever we go. Seems our problem is not one of lack of information.

[TK]

It's a good question... but I truly think the term "prophet" under the new covenant is not necessarily the "thus saith the Lord" type of prophet. If someone went around saying "thus saith the Lord" a lot, it would raise my eyebrows.

I believe(know) there are prophetic people today but I don't mean people who state what is going to happen; rather they state what God is saying.

AW Tozer, for example, was a "prophetic" man, in my opinion. A person like Keith Green was a prophetic person; I believe Art Katz was a prophetic man (you may not have heard of him) and I personally know people who I would call "prophetic." It's sort of a hard term to define exactly. But I know a prophetic person when I hear/see one, and trust the HS to give discernment when needed.

TK

[RICHinCHRIST]

If 1 Cor. 1:7 is about outward spiritual gifts in particlar, especially the office of prophet, why would they be gifted with this and not any churches today, if being off course is the criteria? Paul seemed to think the Corinthians were pretty far off course.

Hi Homer! You bring up a good point, bro. The Corinthians were far off course, and they needed Paul to correct them. Perhaps there were prophets in the church who knew that things needed to change but only Paul was one who had the authority to correct them so firmly. Even so, this would not prove to me that there is no office of the prophet, but that there is still a possibility for prophets today despite the church being off course in many ways. Maybe what TK said is right. I think there are many anointed servants of God who are in tune with the heart of God, and accurately speak His heart to people. In addition to AW Tozer and Keith Green, I've often thought a pastor named Zac Poonen in India also fits that category. However, none of those men had ever predicted something short-term or long-term that was to come to pass. They never thought to, because God hadn't gifted them in that way. Therefore, I would hesitate to call them prophets.

Why would we need prophets to give us "thus sayeth the Lord" statements when we have received all we need from Jesus and His apostles:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1. God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2. has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

We have far better than the Corinthians; we have the words of Jesus and the Apostles in compact form that we can take with us wherever we go. Seems our problem is not one of lack of information.

I agree that we have the Scriptures, which are infinitely valuable. However, I'm not talking about needing prophets for "progressive revelation". In other words, I don't think we need more doctrine or more information. Some of those things would be nice to have because they would solve some debates that Christians have over non-essential doctrines, but they are still not necessary, in my opinion. I still think that having prophets would be helpful though. For instance, Agabus in the book of Acts was able to inform the church of a coming famine in Jerusalem, and how the church could respond to that immediate need. I think that having a prophet nearby would help a lot with these kinds of things. Let's say God revealed to someone that a nuclear bomb was going to hit the east coast and that all Christians in the northeast should flee to the West. That would be something that would classify as important information which is not revealed in the pages of Scripture.

Maybe I'm thinking of the office of a prophet too narrowly. Perhaps the OT prophets just had a deep impression on their hearts and they wrote in their own words what God impressed upon them. Maybe it wasn't an audible voice from God, or maybe it was, I don't know. Maybe some people are prophets without even knowing it, and they have beneficial revelation from God that can build up and equip the saints for ministry, even though they would hesitate to predict a future event.

However, I'm also open-minded to the possibility that the office of apostleship and prophecy has left the church since its foundation, per Eph 2:20. The foundation of a building doesn't have to be laid twice, so perhaps the apostles and prophets were only relevant for that special time. I still have hope that it's possible for God to raise up true prophets, I just haven't seen anything convincing that there are any at this time.

[RICHinCHRIST]

It's a good question... but I truly think the term "prophet" under the new covenant is not necessarily the "thus saith the Lord" type of prophet. If someone went around saying "thus saith the Lord" a lot, it would raise my eyebrows.

Yes, if one claimed to speak for God without any credentials, then it would be necessary to listen to them cautiously. But if one faithfully predicted certain short-term events and built a reputation for being 100% accurate, then I would have no problem accepting what they would say from that point on. If God needed to tell us something so urgently, I believe that He would raise up a true prophet for that purpose. Perhaps He will not need to do so until the second coming of our Lord.

[TK]

Rich wrote:

Let's say God revealed to someone that a nuclear bomb was going to hit the east coast and that all Christians in the northeast should flee to the West. That would be something that would classify as important information which is not revealed in the pages of Scripture.

Some "prophetic" people HAVE predicted things like this in the recent past.. maybe not specifically when or how but I know that there are people where I live (in OH) who believe that our area will be a haven or "cities of refuge" for persons fleeing east coast cities. Unfortunately I dont know a lot of the details about who said what but I know of some people that pay closer attention than i do. I dont put a ton of stock in it but i guess i dont 100% ignore it either.

TK

[RICHinCHRIST]

Rich wrote:

Let's say God revealed to someone that a nuclear bomb was going to hit the east coast and that all Christians in the northeast should flee to the West. That would be something that would classify as important information which is not revealed in the pages of Scripture.

Some "prophetic" people HAVE predicted things like this in the recent past.. maybe not specifically when or how but I know that there are people where I live (in OH) who believe that our area will be a haven or "cities of refuge" for persons fleeing east coast cities. Unfortunately I dont know a lot of the details about who said what but I know of some people that pay closer attention than i do. I dont put a ton of stock in it but i guess i dont 100% ignore it either.

TK

Hi TK. I find it interesting that you bring that up because I've also thought about disasters coming upon the east coast ever since I had a series of terrible dreams about 4 years ago. I distinctly remember there being bombings and explosions everywhere and many people screaming. I was surprised by the dream because I have never had a dream so realistic. Also, I wasn't watching action movies non-stop for the previous week, I was actually at a point where I had not watched TV in two years. It was a very bizarre set of dreams and ever since I've had the impression, or perhaps even an expectation of terrible things happening here on the east coast. It could just be my own mind thinking these things up, but I find it interesting that other Christians have had similar thoughts.

I never put much weight in my dreams until about 6 or 7 months ago. First of all, I don't usually remember my dreams, and if I do, they usually don't make sense. However, I distinctly remember having a dream right after I got saved (about 5 years ago this month) that I was in a building and listening to a band play about 200 feet away. I remember there being wood frames near the ceiling, and that there was a very pretty color display on a screen. I distinctly remember there being a couple female singers on the stage right position.

Turns out, 4 and a half years later I got a call to play a solo acoustic performance (I'm a musician) for a church event a couple towns away from me. I was to play in the coffeehouse section of the church while people came in and drank coffee and such, and then the premier worship band of the church was to perform and lead the people in worship. Anyway, after my performance I was planning on leaving and not staying for the remainder of the event, but something in me just didn't feel right about leaving yet. I figured I'd stay for a couple songs and leave at some point during the first set of worship music. Well, the band was incredible, and so I decided to stay longer. Then all of a sudden it hit me: I was in the very same situation that I found myself in my dream years earlier! The girl singers were on the stage, and there was a beautiful animated color display on the screen and it all just clicked. The wood frames were there, everything fell into place. I began to realize that I was experiencing the very thing I had dreamed about years prior. This built up my faith tremendously, and I just worshipped God for giving me a prophetic dream. I sensed that God spoke to me through it by confirming to me that I was in His will being where I was. He knew in advance that I'd end up there, and also I felt as if it was a confirmation of my calling to continue to write music and share it with the body of Christ.

Anyway, now that I look back on those other dreams I had, I wonder if there will ever be any prophetic significance to them.

[TK]

Rich-

I am so glad you posted about your dream. This is because I believe that the Lord has spoken to me very strongly in my dreams, although it has never been prophetic, like yours, in the sense of providing information about something that will happen, but rather prophetic in the sense that God is telling me something specific about what IS happening. It has onlyh happened to me a couple of times, and it has affected me very powerfully, and I have prayed that it would happen more often. Below is a copy of an email that I sent to some dear brothers in the Lord regarding a dream I had that involved all of them. Perhaps you will get a sense as to why I call it a "prophetic" dream:

Hey Todd, Mark, Charles, Dana and Dave--
I wanted to share with you all a very vivid dream I had just before I woke up this morning. Each of you were in it, which is why I wanted to pass it along.
As you know, when trying to recount your dream to someone else, something is always lost in the translation because a lot of what is experienced in a dream is emotion and sense and impression. This dream did not last long but it was one of the strongest I have had, and I do have a very strong sense it was directly from the Lord. I have been praying that God would speak to me more in my dreams, and that I would remember them, and he has been answering that prayer lately. Anyways, here it is.
As the dream began I was walking into what I describe as a gymnasium. It may not have been a gym but it was a large open room like that. As I entered through the doors, Charles was sitting on a high stool to my left. I am not sure exactly what he was doing or what his function was, but I knew that he was in a vital position. I said “Hi Charles” and walked on in.
I noticed several people ahead, all on the left side of this room. If you imagine a basketball court, everyone was to left side of the out of bounds line but there were no bleachers. First, I saw Dave L. on one knee ministering to someone who was sitting on the ground. I am not sure if he was sharing the gospel or praying for a healing, but I sensed intensity.
Mark S and Dana were further ahead involved in some sort of activity—I believe they were moving a long table together in preparation for some ministry purpose. I remember there was joy on their faces and it made me smile.
Todd R. was in character, sort of flitting around from person to person encouraging or assisting in some way.
There may have been more people in the room, but I cannot remember specifically who was there. But my sense was that there was a lot of activity, but at the same time it was very serene and orderly.
Then I sat in a chair kind of to the left of where Dave L. was talking to that gentleman. I heard Dave say “This is the best song I have ever heard” and he handed me a sheet of paper with lyrics to a song on it. I knew he meant "worship song" but he didn't say that specifically. The only thing I can remember about these lyrics was that the word “Eden” was in there. I wish I could remember more about that.
But the most powerful part of the dream is that when I took that piece of paper and started looking at it, the overwhelming presence of God came over me in such a powerful way. I mean I couldn’t breathe, I couldn’t speak, and I couldn’t continue reading. I don’t know if you have ever felt really excited about something or really felt the presence of God where you are shaking internally—almost like really strong shivers—but that is what I was feeling. In fact I am sort of feeling that right now.
The most important, and encouraging part about this dream is this: the sense that I got was that there was holiness in this room because of the men that were in it. God was saying to me that I was fortunate to know these men; because where they are He will also be in a mighty way. I want to stress that I know that the reason I felt that overwhelming presence of the Lord was because of the men who were in the room, and what was going on in the room.
So I want each of you to be very encouraged. God is pleased with you. Keep pursuing Him; keep yourselves pure for His sake. Of course this goes doubly for me.
I am so excited for what lies ahead.

When I related this dream, Dave L reminded me that "Eden" means "delight" which of course is the exact sense I had in the dream- that God was delighted. All the guys were very encouraged by this dream, which is what I believe the Lord intended to convey to me, to be shared with them.

TK

[RICHinCHRIST]

That's really cool, TK. Maybe I'll write a song called, "Eden" someday!

[seanpual]

Wow this is really good information about where are the prophets. Glad i found this thread...