Spiritual Gifts

[mattrose]

I am struggling in my understanding of spiritual gifts. I have 2 main questions:

1. Are they absolutely different from God-given talents (evident, perhaps, prior to conversion)? Are spiritual gifts given out to people upon conversion without connection to their talents, passions, inclinations prior to that?

2. Are they amplified versions of what all Christians should DO in a given area? We should all be willing to evangelize, speak God's word, teach, have faith, help, contribute, etc.... but are some of us given something akin to spiritual steroids which amplify a specific area for the individual in question?

Thanks in advance for any good dialogue that follows...

[Paidion]

Matt, I think it an error to think these gifts (or rather "graces") are natural talents which people possess.
It is possible that God might give graces which correspond to natural talents, but many times he gives those which do not.
It seems that these graces (charismata) were bestowed through the laying on of hands of the elders, that is, the overseers (there was no distinction between these terms in the early church).

Paul wrote to Timothy:

Do not neglect the grace you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. (1Timothy 4:14)

When this happens you know what graces God has bestowed on you. There is no guess work.

Many years ago, in the assembly of which I am part, a council of elders prophesied over me with the laying on of hands. They prophesied that I was being given "a word of wisdom" (an expression of wisdom), "a word of knowledge" (an expression of knowledge), and "faith". In the prophecy, it was said that I would be surprised at the words which would come out of my mouth—and that has, in fact, happened many times.

[mattrose]

Thanks for entering into dialogue with me on this...

Matt, I think it an error to think these gifts (or rather "graces") are natural talents which people possess. It is possible that God might give graces which correspond to natural talents, but many times he gives those which do not.

My instinct on this was to assume that there was not a correlation b/w 'natural talents' and 'spiritual gifts.' One is natural. The other is supernatural. But then I started thinking that talents are good things and all good things are God-given. This helped me think more highly of natural talents. Then I started thinking about how God doesn't seem to be the kind of God who would prefer to 'zap' us with things instantly, but tends to want to transform us day by day, with great patience.

These two thoughts led me to reconsider the relationship between 'God-given talents' and 'spiritual gifts.' It seems to me that God might occasionally give someone a spiritual gift in an area they had no prior skill, but that He might more often amplify and sanctify the talents that He already gave them. They were there all along... God simply amplifies them and puts them to proper use (serving the body instead of self).

It seems that these graces (charismata) were bestowed through the laying on of hands of the elders, that is, the overseers (there was no distinction between these terms in the early church).

Paul wrote to Timothy:

Do not neglect the grace you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. (1Timothy 4:14)

When this happens you know what graces God has bestowed on you. There is no guess work.

So, just to be clear, you think the way it is SUPPOSED to work is that the local elders/overseers prophecy over a person (with the prophecy specifically naming their spiritual gift)?

Since laying on of hands services like that are not the norm, do you feel this is why Christians end up resorting to guess-work and 'spiritual gifts tests'?

Many years ago, in the assembly of which I am part, a council of elders prophesied over me with the laying on of hands. They prophesied that I was being given "a word of wisdom" (an expression of wisdom), "a word of knowledge" (an expression of knowledge), and "faith". In the prophecy, it was said that I would be surprised at the words which would come out of my mouth—and that has, in fact, happened many times.

Would you be willing to give 1 example of each of these 3 spiritual gifts from your life? Thanks so much!

[mattrose]

Since I asked you to share about your spiritual gifts, it is probably only fair that I share about what I consider mine to be.

I believe my spiritual gift is teaching. But the story of how I came to this conclusion might explain why I have some of the questions that I do.

I 'prayed the prayer' to become a Christian as a little kid in Sunday School class. From 7-17, I confess that i did not really understand the Gospel of the Kingdom. During this time, if someone asked me (as they frequently did) 'What do you want to be when you grow up?' my answer was either 1) Announcer for the Buffalo Sabres games or 2) A teacher (probably of history). These were somewhat strange answers b/c I was an INCREDIBLY shy kid (often more afraid of the world than 'shy' I suppose). How could a boy who could go a whole day at school without talking ever be heard by thousands or speak in front of dozens? Nevertheless, that's what I desired to be.

When I was 17, I came to understand the call of the Gospel more clearly and surrendered my life to Jesus. That same night I felt called to a life of full-time (pastoral) ministry. Again, I felt this fairly to be a fairly absurd idea. How could a shy guy teach or preach in front of large congregations of people? Nevertheless, by faith I went to Bible College and began training for the ministry. Some of this training included classes on preaching. I didn't do very well at first. I was afraid and uncomfortable. But I kept trying and after a 2 or 3 sermons I became more comfortable. Fairly quickly, in my estimation, I began to feel very much at home teaching and preaching God's Word. I loved doing it.

Over the past 10 years of ministry, I've had many people whom I respect encourage me in regards to my preaching/teaching ministry. I've also sensed God speaking through me many times. Especially noteworthy is times when I found myself saying something in a sermon that was by no means planned that really seemed to connect with the congregation. I believe I have good reason for believing that 'teaching' is the spiritual gift God has given me to serve the body of Christ.

But this story of my experience raises questions. Was my desire to be a teacher before I surrendered to Christ and received that 'calling' of God or a coincidence? Was I made by God, all along, to be a teacher and I just needed to discover what was always in me? If it was simply an instantaneous gift, why did I do it so poorly the first few times I tried?

[Paidion]

So, just to be clear, you think the way it is SUPPOSED to work is that the local elders/overseers prophecy over a person (with the prophecy specifically naming their spiritual gift)?

I think this may have been the early Christian norm. But this fact (if it is a fact) does not imply that God does not sometimes bestow a spiritual gift without the laying on of hands by the presbytery. In our circle of fellowship, it is not the local elders through whom the gifts are bestowed by laying on of hands and prophecy. It is through "the travelling elders" (those who oversee the entire circle of fellowship. I suppose those holding such a position would be called "bishops" in the traditional churches. Some in our circle refer to them as "apostles" although they themselves seldom, if ever, use that title.)

Like you, I was afraid of people when I was a child. I lived on a farm and when people came to the house, I ran upstairs and hid.

I think you are asking about an example of the outworking of one of these gifts in my life. Is that the case?

Once when sitting in our small assembly which at that time consisted of about 20 people, I had a strong sense that someone was secretly doing something wrong. I stood up and said, "The Lord reveals that some one has been doing something wrong." The thought of a particular person came to mind, but immediately three people stood up (in turn) and confessed (not the person I thought). I understood that what I had done was express "a word of knowledge."

What is strange is that though it was prophesied that I had received the gift of faith, I always felt that I lacked in faith, and I didn't FEEL that I had any greater measure of faith subsequent to the prophecy.

[mattrose]

Thanks for sharing

Here is the working definition for 'spiritual gift' that I made today:

A special ability, proficiency, or status that God providentially grants to particular individuals by the Spirit for the purpose of continuing Jesus’ work of drawing unbelievers and building up believers.

[Paidion]

Thanks, Matt. That seems to be a very good definition!

[backwoodsman]

Since laying on of hands services like that are not the norm, do you feel this is why Christians end up resorting to guess-work and 'spiritual gifts tests'?

I think Christians resort to such things because they're carnally minded and spiritually destitute, but think they're spiritually mature. So they don't realize that the only way to get spiritual gifts is to get to know the Giver well enough that He can entrust them to you.

This morning I ran across a quote from Charles Spurgeon that pretty much sums up my thinking on spiritual gifts: "I looked at Jesus, and the dove of peace flew into my heart; I looked at the dove of peace, and she flew away." I don't think the enemy cares very much what it is that distracts us from Jesus, just as long as we're distracted. If he can distract us with spiritual gifts, or false 'spiritual warfare' teachings, or anything else that distracts from Jesus while making us think we're really getting somewhere spiritually, so much the better.

I can't help but notice that most of Paul's teaching on spiritual gifts was an effort to correct and bring balance to a church that was seriously messed up in several ways, and grossly abusing spiritual gifts, among other things. It seems unwise, at best, to turn that into a major focus point, as some do.

All that said, I think it's very important to have an accurate idea of one's own strengths, weaknesses, gifts & abilities. Without that, it's much more difficult for God to use our strengths, and correct our weaknesses.

[steve]

In my view, there is a supernatural dimension to every genuine gift of the Holy Spirit, though the "supernatural" element may not be evidently "miraculous." When gifts do have that miraculous character—e.g., healings, prophecy, tongues, working of miracles—it is not likely that they will necessarily correspond to any natural talent already resident in a person by nature or training. For example, a person naturally adept at the acquisition of languages is probably not more likely than another to speak with glossalalia.

However, gifts such as teaching, leading, giving, helps, administration, etc. may possibly involve the supernatural overlay of a spiritual "anointing" (to use a word that may sound hokey in some circles) upon some preexisting talent. It can not be predicted whether or not a man who is a great secular teacher will become a spiritually gifted teacher in the church when converted—though he might. If he does, "the gift of teaching" (in my opinion) will not simply be a sharpening of his existing oratory or explanatory skills. It will be a spiritual power that is not seen so much in his performance as in the spiritual results wrought in his listeners in terms of spiritual edification. It is often possible to mistake great speaking or presenting skills, which uplift or inspire the emotions (but which build no permanent spiritual improvement into the hearer) for a spiritual gift of teaching. On the other hand, I have derived great spiritual benefit from those who truly have the teaching "gift"—whether they were naturally articulate or not.

Similarly, it may seem that all that is necessary to the "gift of helps" is the possession of some helpful skill, or that all that is necessary to the "gift of giving" is the possession of money. However, there are helpful people, and generous people who do not even know Christ, and who cannot, therefore, be said to have spiritual gifts. A genuine gift of "helps" or "giving", no doubt, is one where the service performed also results in spiritual edification and improvement in Christlikeness in the beneficiary.

My suspicion is that the working of the more "miraculous" types of gifts cannot be improved, but are a direct action of the Spirit, working independently of the gifted person's natural abilities (hence, I am not a fan of "schools of prophets" which allegedly teach people how to prophesy, or "schools of the supernatural," which teach people to work wonders).

With other gifts, however, I believe the natural element can be improved, without the spiritual gift element needing improvement. Thus, a teacher can become better informed by study, the giver can increase his resources through employment, or the helper can hone the abilities by which he serves others. Yet, the "supernatural" element is immediate and unimproved. That is, I do not think I am a more "gifted" teacher today than I was when I was considerably more ignorant (though I may now be more useful). I think I can see as much evidence of spiritual anointing in my ministry from its earliest days as I can now. Due to subsequent study, reflection and experience, the things I am likely to say today are more reliable, better informed, and less self-assured than in earlier times. Thus I have improved, though I don't know that this means the gift has improved.

Such spiritual gifting is, I think, not unrelated to certain natural endowments in the gifted person, but, where present, can be viewed as an additional layer of the Holy Spirit's working through the activities involved. So, at least, I see it.

[Paidion]

This morning I ran across a quote from Charles Spurgeon that pretty much sums up my thinking on spiritual gifts: "I looked at Jesus, and the dove of peace flew into my heart; I looked at the dove of peace, and she flew away."

Since Jesus IS the Spirit [2 Cor. 3:17), would it make any difference?

I think Christians resort to such things because they're carnally minded and spiritually destitute, but think they're spiritually mature.

So do you think that Paul and Timothy (and those who laid their hands on Timothy to impart a gift to him) belonged to this class of "carnally minded and spiritually destitute" Christians?

Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. (1Timothy 4:14)