Do you excommunicate?

[nancyer]

After the Pope's recent comments in Italy regarding members of the Mafia, our Tuesday morning Scripture Encounters group discussed the practice of excommunicating within the church. I wondered who here belongs to a church that does this. Ours is a Methodist church and we don't, as an organization, actually excommunicate anyone from the church. Not officially. However, it was brought up that members of a congregation may unofficially do so, perhaps without realizing it, by the way they treat a member who has gone down a wrong path of behavior or actions.

I posed the point that one can love one's neighbor without liking their lifestyle, choices, dress, etc. Our church has two mottos: Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors and No Perfect Persons Allowed.

Our previous pastor has asked members of the youth group not to return because of behavior (showing up buzzed or high) and requires them to apologize to the group when they do return. I don't recall anyone asked not to return to Sunday morning services. Anyone's thoughts?

[Paidion]

Did Jesus teach his disciples to practise excommunication? Indeed, did He teach that anyone his disciples excommunicated, that this would be recognized in heaven by God? Or if an excommunicated person repented and was accepted again, that this, too, would be recognized by God in heaven? Here are his words:

If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matt 18:15-18)

[nancyer]

Dear Paidion,

That was indeed one of the scriptures we refered to. We talked about the difficulty in following that scripture, i.e. being strong enough to confront (for lack of a better term) a person, sticking to your guns if not everyone agrees and following through, what sort of action would warrant excommunication, if we practiced it. The topic also went in the direction of ruffling feathers of those who give large donations to the church, is the "infraction" worth the risk.

Thanks for replying and God Bless you

Nancy

[Paidion]

And thank you, Nancy. I think I see better now what your question was. You didn't want to know whether or not excommunication is appropriate, but exactly what offenses justify excommunication. I agree that that is sometimes hard to determine.

I think people are excommunicated too easily in some churches—cases in which they ought not to be. No one should be excommunicated because of their beliefs, but only because of wrong actions. Furthemore this ought to be done only as a last resort, that is, after the offender has been talked to—the three steps taken which Jesus advocated and only if the offender continuously rejects the admonition given. However, if he repents (has a change of heart and mind) after his wrongdoing is addressed, he should NOT be excommunicated, but completely forgiven, so that his future relations with the church are just as if he had never done wrong.

If it was necessary to take the last resort and to excommunicate the offender, he should still be forgiven if he repents, just as the man in the Corinthian church who had been copulating with his step-mother. He was ostracised by the church, not in order to punish him (in the penal sense), but to correct him. They were not even to eat with him while he was excommunicated. This treatment had its effect and he did repent. Then Paul wrote a second letter to the Corinthians in which he advocated complete forgiveness.

[TheEditor]

I was raised a third generation JW. during the last 50 years of it's history, disfellowshipping has become quite a tool to keep people in line. The JWs practice it incorrectly. They do not recognize the fact that it was a "local" action--it didn't carry world-wide consequences. They also don't understand that the person so put out was to not have table fellowship, but to continue to be adminished as a brother. And, lastly, they fail to see that there was no enforcment of the "shunning" behavior, ie. people chose to or they didn't. Paul makes this clear in the second letter to the Corinthians when he states regarding the man that sinned with his step-mother:

"This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort him, that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him." (2 Corinthians 2:6-8)

Unfortunately, JW disfellowhipping is quite sweeping and if it happens, no one will talk to you even in non-spiritual settings, and if someone does, and is caught so doing, they run the risk of disfellowshipping as well, if they do not cease and desist.

Regards, Brenden.

[Jepne]

A church I used to be in - a young attractive woman was so flirtatious toward the men that the elders forbade her to talk with the men, but she was allowed to come to church. Then she took off with a married man from the church - then I heard she had cancer and died.

Another fellow was improper with the young girls and he was asked to leave. Then I went to church one morning and I saw the elders approach a man and escort him out. I was told that he had beaten his wife the night before. She was a pleasant sister; he was obnoxious. They left town.

I felt safe in that church, and that was important as a single woman. When I met a man, I brought him to them and I knew they would be absolutely honest with me - and - I would be free to make up my own mind. The elders were not cowed by anyone. They trusted God for the finances so they were far from being owned by anyone but Jesus Christ.

I was in another church that was dominated by a man who did not want to be Spirit-led, and when he left, by a woman who despised her elder-husband. It was a misery every Sunday.