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Post by jaydam » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:16 pm

Anybody know much of this movement or group of people?

They appear to be perhaps mystical Christians. I know nothing about them except I was given a Renovare NRSV Bible today. Had not heard of them previously.

The notes I've randomly looked over in the Bible appear very concerned with one's spiritual life and "practicing" the presence of God.

I haven't come across any glaring heresies, and find the devotional type notes might be interesting as they relate to prayer life and spiritual reflection.

However, I'd like to also know more about these people. I'll look them up on the internet, but would love to hear from anyone here if they can more readily give me some good info.

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Re: Renovare?

Post by crgfstr1 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:35 am

Interesting. I have never heard of them either but that doesn't say much. The most interesting debate I found on them is an article here (not a site I am familiar with) and the comments section that follow: ... 0-renovare

It seems similar to an issue that has come up on other threads. Just how sound does ones doctrine have to be in order to be a Christian and what does it take to consider one a brother and fellowship with them. I think the doctrinal differences would go away or become much less if we focused first on the love and fellowship and then on the doctrine. Seems the writer of the article I linked above doesn't think so and especially if you reads his comments following the comments of a supporter of renovare.

How is one to know what is in someone's heart? Isn't the heart and the character of someone what God is most focused on? Seems much of that is lost in some of these debates for sound doctrine.

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Re: Renovare?

Post by Homer » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:05 am

Doctrine is often disparaged but what is doctrine but teaching? Paul regarded it as important:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NKJV)

3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4. and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

In the "great commission" we are commanded to make disciples by baptism and teaching them to obey Jesus. Doctrine is what is taught. No doctrine, no disciples.

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Re: Renovare?

Post by steve » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:51 pm

I have my differences with Richard Foster, but the critic in the article is far worse. I am afraid that many spiritual renewal movements do show too little discernment in their adoption of spiritual practices, and I think some of the teachings of groups like Renovate should be exposed, but I do not see their errors as worse than those of the critic. They are simply different errors. The critic says that charismatics are "occultists." Yet, most of the ones I have met are not occultists by any description. The critic says that Arminians believe in "works" (in some negative sense, which, I assume, means "justification by works"). This is untrue as well. I don't mind using the word "Calvinist" with a negative connotation, but I would not stoop to misrepresenting, slandering or anathematizing them. In this respect, the critic, like far too many Calvinists, does not impress me as one who has the Spirit of Christ—something I cannot say against Richard Foster.

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Re: Renovare?

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:21 pm

Renovare is an organization Richard Foster put together to equip people to do small groups that integrate different streams of Christianity. Social Justice. Holiness. Charismatic. I think there are others... too lazy to look them up. Some of the books they used included devotionals and study questions using the primary sources of authors in those movements. I believe it's an attempt to balance the tendency to get out of whack by emphasizing one aspect of our faith, rejecting others. Not even my malice, but simply personal preference. I've never seen anything from Foster I didn't like. If you are sensitive to Christian Mysticism, he might annoy you. But he's a pretty rock solid teacher. imo
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

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