Gift Of Prophecy

[RV]

Anyone one of you have it? If not, do you know someone who does? Do you have any stories of when you have seen the gift used?

I've heard some say it happens when someone is teaching. Meaning: When a pastor is giving a message and it happens to be right where you're at, that is prophecy.

Thoughts, comments, stories/experience.

[RickC]

Hello RV. Welcome to the new forum.
You wrote:

Anyone one of you have it? If not, do you know someone who does? Do you have any stories of when you have seen the gift used?

I've heard some say it happens when someone is teaching. Meaning: When a pastor is giving a message and it happens to be right where you're at, that is prophecy.

Thoughts, comments, stories/experience.

The gift of prophecy was discussed on Steve Gregg's old forum. The discussion didn't last long but below is an excerpt from my first post. There you'll see a prophecy that I posted from a church service I attended.

You probably know that some Christians don't believe this gift is "for today." Some, as you hinted at, think the gift can happen happen during a sermon or a regular discussion with someone. I think they could happen in this way too. However, the gift of prophecy exercised in the church is a special gift, in my opinion, as you will see below.

Also, no one that I know of who has been used in spiritual gifts has ever claimed to "have" them, as if they "owned" them. Godly Christians I've known realize and say the Holy Spirit distributes the gifts according to God's will. Of course, some Christians do claim to "be" prophets. Jeannie-Marie (who you will read about below) has been used in this gift since the 1970s. So much so that I could consider her a prophetess. However, to my knowledge she has never made such a claim. I would think she would see this as offensive to God (as she is a very humble lady). But this is a side topic.

Here's my (old) post.
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The Gift of Prophecy

1 Corinthians 12-14 gives guidelines on the exercise of spiritual gifts. Chapter 14, in particular, outlines how prophecy, and tongues with the interpretation of tongues, are to be done. I don't want to do a full 'teaching' here but want to point to a few things and get a discussion going.
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Foretelling Prophecy:
Predictions Along the Path

Acts 21, NIV
7We continued our voyage from Tyre and landed at Ptolemais, where we greeted the brothers and stayed with them for a day. 8Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. 9He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.

10After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11Coming over to us, he took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, "The Holy Spirit says, 'In this way the Jews of Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.' "

12When we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go up to Jerusalem. 13Then Paul answered, "Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus." 14When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said, "The Lord's will be done."

This example of Agabus and Paul perfectly illustrates foretelling or predictive prophecy. It differs from forthtelling prophecy in one way: it predicts events. I've known several people, maybe about five or so, who were used in the gift of prophecy like this. I could give two examples from my own life when two people "spoke to me in the name of the Lord." What they said was much more than "an encouraging word from Lord." They were given precise details about my life that only God could know. I won't go into what they said other than to say, "They spoke for, or as, God: And it changed my life!"
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Forthtelling Prophecy:
Instructive Words of Strength, Encouragement, and Comfort to the Church

1 Corinthians 14, NIV
2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.

Here Paul touches on how the gift of tongues for the church (as distinct from "personal prayer language") with the accompanying interpretation is equivalent to prophesying: The "utterance" in tongues is interpreted. Many people (like some of we FBFF folks) have never seen these gifts in operation. And from what I've been hearing from a reliable source, they have been waning in many Pentecostal churches in the last couple decades.

Paul doesn't specifically say it, but in my experience, people who are used in the gift of prophecy quite often speak for God in the first person. They may or may not say "Thus says the Lord." They may say "I" as God speaking directly to the people.

Let me give a recent example.
Not long ago, I got back in touch with someone I've known since the 70s. She (her name is Jeannie-Marie) was used by God in prophecy and was one of the two people who spoke to me in a "foretelling" and life-changing way. I went to visit her church, which she and her husband, Ron, pastor.

A week or so before the visit.
I was in a deep study of Revelation 20-22, which I'm still doing. This study has led to considerations of The Temple in both testaments. In the NT, and without citing passages, The Temple of God is depicted in different ways as: (1) Jesus' own body; Jesus who embodied everything the Temple really stood for, (2) The Church or Body of Christ, "Do you not know your bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit?" wrote Paul, (3) in Hebrews The Temple of the Old Covenant was a mere "shadow" of the reality to be found in Christ; we have a new and better High Priest in Jesus, (4) in Revelation, The Temple is in some way, the New Heavens and New Earth, the New Jerusalem coming down from God: the True Holy of Holies. We have approached Mount Zion and that heavenly city, for she is our mother, wrote Paul.

Forthtelling Prophecy: Instruction, Strength, Encouragement, and Comfort in Action.
Just before going to Ron & Jeannie-Marie's church, I scanned over some notes I had made in this study, being in a state of meditation, contemplating these things. During the service and before the sermon, Jeannie-Marie prophesied. These are close to her actual words:

"Thus says the Lord, O My people! Come!
I have prepared The Way for you to enter into My Courts with thanksgiving! O rise up, come, and enter! I stand as your Advocate in the Holy of Holies. O Come! Enter into My Presence! O My People, I hear your prayers! Come, O come! and receive all that My Father has prepared for you! Lean not on the flesh but enter in, enter in! O My people, arise, come, and draw near to Me, says the Lord!"

This prophecy spoke directly to the insides of my heart in confirmation of all I had been studying....
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(Me posting now).

Obviously, it's difficult to communicate feelings or emotions felt over the internet (it's hard enough to explain spiritual experiences in person). My last sentence above was the best I could do at the time....

For more on spiritual gits, see, "Charisma and Character" under Topical Lectures:
http://www.thenarrowpath.com/
Lastly, I'm in the middle of studying other topics now but can come back here.
I hope this post and links are of some help to you, RV.

Also, I don't want to debate about spiritual gifts; if anyone would like to do that, please start a new thread.
Thanks,

[Paidion]

There is a difference between prophesying and being a prophet. Not everyone has the gift of prophecy, but every disciple may prophesy:

For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged. I Cor 14:31

But just two verses before this:

Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.

Spiritual charisma (or "gifts") are given by prophecy from the council of elders:

Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. 1 Timothy 4:14

Years ago, the leading brethren of the circle of fellowship of which I am a part, prophesied over me for the administration of the charisma which God had for me. They also prophesied that I would be surprised myself, when ministering in the Spirit, at the words which would come out of my mouth. This has happened many times. Things were said concerning me which could not have been known without prophetical revelation.

There is also a great danger in every age from false prophets. Mt 7:15, 24:11, 24:24
Mk 13:22, Lk 6:16, 2 Pet 2:1, 1 Jn 4:1

On two occasions I encountered false prophets. In both cases, God showed miraculously showed me that they were, in fact, false prophets.

[RV]

Hello RV. Welcome to the new forum.

I hope this post and links are of some help to you, RV.

[RV]

Sorry Rick, I submitted to quickly.

I'm rvornberg from the old forum. Thanks for your response.

Years ago, the leading brethren of the circle of fellowship of which I am a part, prophesied over me for the administration of the charisma which God had for me. They also prophesied that I would be surprised myself, when ministering in the Spirit, at the words which would come out of my mouth. This has happened many times. Things were said concerning me which could not have been known without prophetical revelation.

Thanks for sharing Paidion. I don't want to take away from the experience you had, or even begin to suggest it wasn't from God. It seems like that meant something to you. For me it would appear to be just a vague prophecy. Prior to that, did anything ever come out of your mouth that surprised you?

I guess what I was hoping for are specific events. I myself have never had anything like that happen. I've heard of people predicting church splits and things like that. That is really what I wanted to hear about.

On two occasions I encountered false prophets. In both cases, God showed miraculously showed me that they were, in fact, false prophets.

How did God 'miraculously" show you?

If anyone else has stories that would be great also. I'm hoping for more specific events, not stuff that can't be proven and only means something to you (as an individual)

But... sincerely Paidion and Rick, thanks for sharing. I don't doubt the Lord spoke to you guys.

[RickC]

Hello Don. Good to see you in this new forum!

Spiritual charisma (or "gifts") are given by prophecy from the council of elders:

Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. 1 Timothy 4:14

What was this gift was that was "given" to Timothy? I've always assumed it was his special commissioning to work with Paul. In other words, to participate in and carry on the apostolic work.

I'm sure you didn't mean to convey that every spiritual gift is received only though the laying on of hands! We know this not to be the case both from scripture and in experience (1 Cor 12-14), etc.
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RV, I remember you but not what topics we discussed (offhand).

On what is sometimes called "personal prophecies."
Like yourself and Don, I believe these can and do happen. With Agabus and Paul (from my first post); I had a category of "foretelling" or predictive prophecies. A "personal prophecy" can be both foretelling (predictive) and forthtelling (speaking edification and comfort).

As with all prophecies, they should be carefully weighed-out and assessed.

We don't have any indication that Paul had "doubts" about what Agabus prophesied. Agabus was known to have held held the office of prophet as Acts reports (this theme being a sidebar in our discussion so far).

It wouldn't take much time to find really weird instances of what I'll call "charismatic extremes." We hear about them often! There are a lot of people out there giving the word "charismatic" a bad name (I, myself, being a charismatic Christian, am sometimes reluctant to say it due to stereotypes or misperceptions ). We need discernment: Available through the Holy Spirit in the Body of Christ!

I have other examples of the gifts in operation that I've shared many times on the web and in person: If I can locate some old posts (@ Beliefnet) I'll copy & paste them here. If not, I'll repost them some time soon. Thanks,

P.S. Paidion's "Don." RV's "Ron." Gotcha,

[RV]

Thanks Rick...

Just to clear something up real quick. I'm Ron not Don.

[Paidion]

How did God 'miraculously" show you?

These two events were doubtless the clearest examples of miracles which I have ever experienced.

FALSE PROPHET #1
The first false prophet had come to a small town nearby. He was travelling in a trailer with his wife, a single woman, and a single man. The "prophet" called on the town to repent, or else God would deal with them.The woman sang and did a silly little march, and then declared that if anyone came forward, she would, through prophecy, tell them all about their lives. I had ridden there on my motorcyle; I was bearded and dressed in a leather jacket. I was in my 40s at the time, and looked the part of a tough street guy (though, in fact, I wasn't). So I went forward to see if she had any genuine insight from God. She told me that I had had a hurtful experience in life, but that God was waiting to restore me. She said some other things which I do not remember, but none of it was true. Then she invited my into the trailer, and prophesied the various elements of the whole armour of God upon me, and that I would do great things in the cause of God. The "prophet" then announced that none of this would happen until I received the "baptism of the Holy Ghost". He also referred to the "signs following" of Mark 16:17 that would follow those who were baptized in the Holy Ghost. I asked him if those signs followed his ministry. He affirmed that they did. I asked him whether he could handle poisonous snakes and drink deadly poison. He said that he didn't handle snakes as a practice, but if he did encounter them, they wouldn't hurt him; the same with the poison. I could sense a spirit of opposition in him, and we began to strongly disagree. He began to rail at me and condemn me. I got up and left the trailer. The single woman quickly followed me out and apologized for the "prophet's" behaviour.

I went home and asked God to reveal to me whether or not this was a false prophet. I rememberered that the apostles cast lots to find the replacement for Judas. I decided to throw ten coins. I asked the Lord that the coins all turn up heads if this was a true prophet, and that they all turn up tails if it was a false prophet. If anything else turned up, I would take that to mean that I shouldn't have asked the Lord to reveal the answer in this way. Now the probability of the coins being neither all heads or all tails is 511 out of 512. I prayed earnestly, and to my astonishment all ten coins turned up tails! I was convinced he was a false prophet. The next morning I went back to the town to warn the others about the false prophet, but the group had already left town.

FALSE PROPHET #2
I encountered this "prophet" in a Christian summer camp in which two powerful persons in the Lord taught the people the truths of God. (I can't explain this. This is something that must be experienced). That year, one of these leaders, CS, brought the "prophet" in. It was announced that he would give personal prophecies to individuals. I was thinking of attending, when I almost hear God say, "Don't go. You have received your prophecy". But I wanted to make certain this wasn't simply my own thought. So I asked God to show me, if this man were a false prophet, I said to the Lord, "When I open my eyes, if I immediatley see a person walking by that has a white top and blue slacks or jeans, then that will indicate that this is a false prophet." I opened my eyes and immediately saw a person with a white top and blue jeans. Hmmm. That's a pretty common combination. That could have been a coincidence. So I asked the Lord, "Show me one more time so that I will know it is you who is telling me that this man is a false prophet. When I open my eyes, let me immediately see a person with a blue top and white slacks or jeans." I opened my eyes, and immediately I saw a woman with a blue blouse and white jeans. Needless to say, I didn't attend that meeting!

But the next day, a fireside meeting was announced to take place by the fireplace in the Chapel in the Woods. So I attended. But to my dismay, I discovered the false prophet was there, and ready to "prophesy" over people. "Lord, I didn't know he was going to do this. Do you want me to leave?" No answer. So I stayed. The man "prophesied" over several people.

Now you would think that what the Lord had shown me would have been sufficient, and that I should have run out of there! But no ---- I seem to be pretty skeptical at heart. So I asked the Lord once more to verify that this was a false prophet. There was a friend, JS, at the meeting whom I knew was seeking "the baptism in the Holy Spirit", and so I prayed, "If this man is a true prophet, let him prophesy next over JS. If he is a false prophet, let him prophesy over that fellow over there (and I indicated some fellow at random that I did not know). If I shouldn't have asked for this sign, let him prophesy over someone else." Believe it or not, the man next prophesied over the unknown person I had indicated! There was no doubt. This was a false prophet! I shared by experience with some brothers. They thought that the leadership should be immediately informed. But for some reason which I don't understand to this day, I balked at the suggestion, and it didn't happen.

The final day of the camp, the "prophet" himself revealed that he was false. He "prophesied" over the leader CS himself, saying, "Your name will become a household word in America!"
I immediately prayed that God would protect CS from pride.

A few years later, I wrote to CS, and told him what had happened, but didn't receive a reply.
All in all, though the Lord so clearly showed this man to be a false prophet, I feel that I failed miserably to do what the Lord had wanted me to do in this matter.

[RV]

Thanks Paidion, those are great stories. I to have asked the Lord to confirm things in similar ways. I've had a couple of experiences like that.

Does anyone have a story where a prophet was real? Or you yourself are a prophet and have an experience to share?

[TK]

The people I have come across with the gift of prophecy would generally fall under the "forthtelling" category as laid out by Paidion, above.

It is actually hard to describe why some people are "prophetic." They just really seem to be in tune with the Lord and are able to speak it forth.

One of the earlier Supreme Court justices said that it was hard to define hard core pornoography "but i know it when i see it."

I think the same is true for those with this gift of prophecy. sometimes it is difficult to define or express, but you know it when you hear it.

TK