Why exactly did Jesus have to die?

[Guest]

In a conversation with a Muslim yesterday, he asked me why God couldn't just forgive people their sins. In other words, what was the exact purpose of Jesus' death?

So, how would you guys answer this?

[Guest]

its all in the blood.

Sin is real, and Jesus paid the penalty for sin once and for all.
We must recognise the image of God and reach out for it, conform the inner man to it.--This is only found in the lord Jesus Christ--if we believe that---glory

[Guest]

you could say "because mohammed need a savior" but that might not go over too well. but the truth of the matter is that Jesus did what no other religious figure has done. Your tagline verse says it quite nicely, Ely.

TK

[Guest]

Ely, that great disciple of Christ and Christian author, George MacDonald, asked essentially the same question the Muslim asked you. He asked, "Why can't you believe that God simply forgives sins outright?" (quoted from memory --- may not be an exact quote)

George MacDonald, whose life was an example of a true disciple who left behind selfish ambition to serve the Lord completely, knew that the Bible does not teach that forgiveness of sins is the reason for Christ's death.

I would have answered the Muslim : "God can simply forgive. But He wants righteous people, and righteousness was made possible through the death of Christ."

What follows are the reasons given in the New Testament for Christ's death:

I Peter 2:24 He himself offered up our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

II Corinthians 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.

Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.


Each of these reasons is essentially the same. Jesus died in order that we might come under the authority of Jesus, and thereby, through His enabling grace, become righteous persons. God, who wants people to be reconciled to Himself and gave His Son to make this possible. The reconciliation of the individual entails taking on the characteristics of God ---- righteousness, holiness, love, and compassion. Christ began His work by His own proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom. He accomplished on the cross the means of making righteousness possible, and proclaimed from the cross that this aspect of His work was completed. Through His people, He continues His work in the hearts of people, reconciling them to Himself, enabling them to overcome wrongdoing, and giving to them the ministry of reconciliation. Christ’s work will not be complete until He has eliminated sin from the universe!

[mgarrett]

I agree 100% with what Paidion has said. And I would also like to add the following regarding the forgiveness of sin.

Jesus forgave sins during His earthly ministry (before His death). Therefore, one might conclude, that the death of Christ was not essential for forgiveness. Here are some references.

Matt 9:1-6
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven." 3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!" 4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? 6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home."

Luke 7:44-48
44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little." 48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

John 8:9-11
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Todd

[Guest]

Paidion wrote:

He accomplished on the cross the means of making righteousness possible, and proclaimed from the cross that this aspect of His work was completed. Through His people, He continues His work in the hearts of people, reconciling them to Himself, enabling them to overcome wrongdoing, and giving to them the ministry of reconciliation.

I have heard you say this before, and i dont think i disagree, but can you elucidate what it was about Christ's death on the cross that makes righteousness possible? If you have explained this elsewhere, I apologize. the reason i need you to explain further is because while i agree with everything you wrote, i believe that Jesus ALSO died as an atoning sacrifice.

TK

[Guest]

Wonderful thoughts.

Paidion, I'd concur with TK's last question. In what sense do you say that Jesus' death "made righteousness possible"? Just as sins were able to be forgiven before Jesus' death (see Todd's post), so also, people were able to be righteous ("Tsaddiyq" in the Hebrew and "Dikaios" in the Greek) before Jesus' death. Jesus himself said that many before him were righteous (Mat 23:35). Such people include Abel (1 John 3:12), the patriarchs Noah (Gen 6:9) and Abraham (Gen 15:6), Lot (!) (2 Peter 2:7-8 ) all the way up to both of John the Baptist's parents (Luke 1:5-6), and Jesus' step-father Joseph (Mat 1:19).

[Guest]

Also, TK, concerning Jesus being a ransom. Who was this ransom being paid by and who was it being paid to?

[Guest]

Ely-

regarding the ransom, your verse says that Jesus gave himself as a ransom-- paid to the Father, as I understand it..

this implies that God was the "kidnapper" since he was demanding the ransom. but only in a manner of speaking. due to sin, we were separated from God. we deserved death, but God didnt want us to die, He wanted us with Him. in a sense we were "captive" in God's scheme of things. so He provided a way out-- somebody had to pay the price for our sins, and since we couldnt do it (we didnt have the right kind of currency), Jesus had to.

i realize that Paidion and Todd don't agree with this view of atonement, which is fine.

for the record, i agree that Jesus also died to save us FROM our sins-- i just think there is more to it than that alone.

TK

[Guest]

Thanks TK. That used to be my basic understanding, but I'm really not sure now. In any case, any concept of the atonement needs to account for the idea (clearly proclaimed in the scriptures) of Jesus being a ransom.