YHWH "walking" in Eden

Post by **_Ely** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:45 pm

Hey guys,

I'm just reading and listening through the Torah. Something came up which I'd like to run by you guys. Let's look at two passages:

And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” Genesis 3

9 “When the army goes out against your enemies, then keep yourself from every wicked thing. 10 If there is any man among you who becomes unclean by some occurrence in the night, then he shall go outside the camp; he shall not come inside the camp. 11 But it shall be, when evening comes, that he shall wash with water; and when the sun sets, he may come into the camp. 12 “Also you shall have a place outside the camp, where you may go out; 13 and you shall have an implement among your equipment, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and turn and cover your refuse. 14 For the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp, to deliver you and give your enemies over to you; therefore your camp shall be holy, that He may see no unclean thing among you, and turn away from you. Deuteronomy 23

Both of these passages have some very similar language. They both have YHWH Elohim "walking" in a particular area and things being covered/concealed in order that YHWH will not "see" them. Some of you believe that YWHW was physically, corporeally walking in Eden. Do you also interpret the Deuteronomy passage in the same manner? If not, why not?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:06 pm

Some of you believe that YWHW was physically, corporeally walking in Eden. Do you also interpret the Deuteronomy passage in the same manner? If not, why not?

IMHO it's the pre-incarnate Christ known as THE Angel (messanger) of the Lord who walked among the people and appeared to Moses and Abraham.
The Angel of the Lord had a similar ministry in the OT that Jesus had in the NT.

Post by **_Sean** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:25 pm

Aren't walking and revealing two different things? Sure God can walk with and among His people. That doesn't mean He reveals Himself visibly to everyone. God seemed to do this with Abraham when they were discussing the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah. So just because you can't see Him, doesn't mean He's not there.

Post by **_Ely** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:40 pm

Steve, are you saying you take both passages in the same literal manner?

Sean, I didn't understand what you said. Are you saying you take these passages literally or not?

Post by **_PAULESPINO** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:32 pm

I believe that the Genesis account is telling us that God was present spiritualy and not physically same in the Deutoronomy.

My reason for saying that God was present spiritually is becuse the Bible
did not describe his physical appearance or physical form.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:46 pm

I have always taken the Genesis account to mean that God allowed Adam and Eve to somehow "see" God via what appeared to be a physical manifestation. So Adam and Eve thought that by hiding, He would be unable to see them. In their primitive understanding, God's presence was confined to this appearance. Am I "way out in left field"?

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:27 am

I think I interpret the Genesis passage in a similar way to you Paidion. The passage speaks of "the voice of Adonai Elohim" walking in the garden. Adam Clarke has this:

The voice of the Lord - The voice is properly used here, for as God is an infinite Spirit, and cannot be confined to any form, so he can have no personal appearance. It is very likely that God used to converse with them in the garden, and that the usual time was the decline of the day, לרוח היום leruach haiyom, in the evening breeze; and probably this was the time that our first parents employed in the more solemn acts of their religious worship, at which God was ever present. The time for this solemn worship is again come, and God is in his place; but Adam and Eve have sinned, and therefore, instead of being found in the place of worship, are hidden among the trees! Reader, how often has this been thy case!

Perhaps this was something similar to the when the cloud would descend upon the tabernacle and Moses would go in and speak with Adonai. I agree with Paul that the Deuteronomy passage is more generally speaking of Adonai being with His people.

Post by **_djeaton** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:17 am

Paidion wrote:In their primitive understanding, God's presence was confined to this appearance.

I like the way you phrased that. It *appeared* that God was limited to one location. In our primitive understanding, we often assume that God takes on human limitations when dealing with us because all the rest of our interactions are within the confines of human limitations. We can't really see beyond that. An appearance or perception from the basis of a primitive understanding dovetails nicely into the question that I asked in the Open Theism section about the Trinity and time. It is when we try to fit God into our primitive understanding that things get weird.
D.

Post by **_Sean** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:50 am

Ely wrote: Sean, I didn't understand what you said. Are you saying you take these passages literally or not?

I don't see it being about taking it literally or figuratively. I see it being about God appearing in a human form (like in the garden) when He wants to. He did this when He wrestled with Jacob and when He spoke with Abraham about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Post by **_djeaton** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:37 am

Sean wrote:
Ely wrote:He did this when He wrestled with Jacob and when He spoke with Abraham about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Were those Theophanies or Christophanies?
D.