I was sitting in a church one day when the pastor blurts out the following. Christians that act out habitual sin or live in sin or have addictions will not inherit the "kingdom of heaven".
I was like ug..count me out.
I lose my temper every day (city driving). I act out selfishly. and on and on and on.
I also know several brothers in christ who struggle with lust on a daily basis, sisters in christ who just won't stop gossiping and the line to "the kingdom of God" in my head keeps getting shorter.
O..and count out all the patriarchs (polygamy).
So help me out friends. who gets into the kingdom of heaven cause right now it looks mighty small.
Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
I think the intent of the pastor was to convey the idea that those who continue to willfully sin with no intention of repentence will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
When a Christian sins, he feels remorseful and is convicted of that sin, and hopefuly repents and desires not to sin again. His intention is to not repeat that sin again, even though that may not be a reality yet. Hopefuly over time one grows and matures and the frequency of a "pet" sin will diminish and eventualy they will be free from such. It may take days, years, or even a lifetime.
That is how I think I would understand what the pastor was trying to say.
Doug
When a Christian sins, he feels remorseful and is convicted of that sin, and hopefuly repents and desires not to sin again. His intention is to not repeat that sin again, even though that may not be a reality yet. Hopefuly over time one grows and matures and the frequency of a "pet" sin will diminish and eventualy they will be free from such. It may take days, years, or even a lifetime.
That is how I think I would understand what the pastor was trying to say.
Doug
Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
(I'm taking you literally here so if it was a retorical question then sorry).philman wrote:So help me out friends.
I'm moved to Dallas 5 years ago so I can relate to the traffic. But I think the real question is why do you lose your temper? My problem was pride. (I couldn't believe people would cut me off on my own highway). But I don't get nearly as angry ,nearly as often as I once did. I hope I will continue to be less angry less often each day.philman wrote:I lose my temper every day (city driving). I act out selfishly. and on and on and on.
Since America uses sex to sell everything it isn't surprising to know men who struggle with lust. I do find it surprising that most Christians don't help each other in love with these problems.philman wrote:I also know several brothers in christ who struggle with lust on a daily basis, sisters in christ who just won't stop gossiping and the line to "the kingdom of God" in my head keeps getting shorter.
I don't know your pastor ,so I don't know his intent, but your reaction is something for you to think about. Your note reads like you think God is keeping a scorecard of good and bad deeds. Too many on the wrong side and your out. Either you have a changed heart or you don't. If you are in Christ, you are forgiven for all your sins past, present and future. Your job is to grasp just how loved you are by Christ. Which makes obeying His commands less about keeping rules and more about pleasing Him.
Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
The text that the pastor seemed to paraphrase is 1 Co 6:9.
1Cor 6:9-11 Or know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, (10)nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.
In one sense it seems useful to quote passages, such as 1Cor 6:9-11 that help us to have a proper fear of God. There are times we need to become nervous about our behaviors. But this fear of the law is mostly for those times people really get into excesses of bad living.
There were at least three flaws that seem to occur in his message:
1) applying verse 9 to believer -- whom Paul expressed these "sins" as past tense in verse 11
2) expanding the passage to a broader set of "sins" than represented in 1Cor 6
3) applying the "inherit the kingdom of God" in the wrong context
If we look at the context, the "unrighteous" were those who were not of the assembly (vs 1). So these unrighteous people were those whom the saints made their judges. The topic of verse 9 wasn't about believers nor was it even a threat of judgment directed at believers. So Paul showed in verse 11 that this was merely the past status of believers. I suppose its possible that your pastor had some other passage in mind though, but 1Cor6:9 seems to be the closest to what you described.
Then the second flaw would be to expand the sins listed here while using the passage against Christians. It is wrong to keep believers in a state of fear for matters of lists of sins, especially when someone goes and makes their own list of sins (or just uses the generalized concept of "sin") to make you feel guilty. Maybe the best option is what Steve offers, namely that we should be taught to try to represent God through our proper life and actions. The main doctrine of behavior in Christianity is to show love and to keep others from stumbling.
Then there may be a third flaw in the idea of holding the inheritance of the kingdom as an ongoing hope. I think many of the concepts such as "entering the kingdom" and "seeing the kingdom" and "inheriting the kingdom" applied to a first century fulfillment. Until we have a better scriptural derivation of the meaning of the kingdom, I think we have to be cautious in our interpretation of such phrases.
Also, we ought to consider the idea that even when preaching a fearful message, there must be a proper expression of mercy as well; Otherwise we can be bound to place burdens upon people that we ourselves could not bear. Its easy to say "thou shalt not do this or that." But how many preachers are willing to say "come to Christ and understand His grace and mercy?" How many people will offer the inviting words "I'm not here to count your sins. I'm here to help where you feel you need help."?
1Cor 6:9-11 Or know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, (10)nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.
In one sense it seems useful to quote passages, such as 1Cor 6:9-11 that help us to have a proper fear of God. There are times we need to become nervous about our behaviors. But this fear of the law is mostly for those times people really get into excesses of bad living.
There were at least three flaws that seem to occur in his message:
1) applying verse 9 to believer -- whom Paul expressed these "sins" as past tense in verse 11
2) expanding the passage to a broader set of "sins" than represented in 1Cor 6
3) applying the "inherit the kingdom of God" in the wrong context
If we look at the context, the "unrighteous" were those who were not of the assembly (vs 1). So these unrighteous people were those whom the saints made their judges. The topic of verse 9 wasn't about believers nor was it even a threat of judgment directed at believers. So Paul showed in verse 11 that this was merely the past status of believers. I suppose its possible that your pastor had some other passage in mind though, but 1Cor6:9 seems to be the closest to what you described.
Then the second flaw would be to expand the sins listed here while using the passage against Christians. It is wrong to keep believers in a state of fear for matters of lists of sins, especially when someone goes and makes their own list of sins (or just uses the generalized concept of "sin") to make you feel guilty. Maybe the best option is what Steve offers, namely that we should be taught to try to represent God through our proper life and actions. The main doctrine of behavior in Christianity is to show love and to keep others from stumbling.
Then there may be a third flaw in the idea of holding the inheritance of the kingdom as an ongoing hope. I think many of the concepts such as "entering the kingdom" and "seeing the kingdom" and "inheriting the kingdom" applied to a first century fulfillment. Until we have a better scriptural derivation of the meaning of the kingdom, I think we have to be cautious in our interpretation of such phrases.
Also, we ought to consider the idea that even when preaching a fearful message, there must be a proper expression of mercy as well; Otherwise we can be bound to place burdens upon people that we ourselves could not bear. Its easy to say "thou shalt not do this or that." But how many preachers are willing to say "come to Christ and understand His grace and mercy?" How many people will offer the inviting words "I'm not here to count your sins. I'm here to help where you feel you need help."?
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kaufmannphillips
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Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
Hi Philman,
Perhaps the following passage was in the pastor's mind:
Galatians 5:13-26 (New King James Version)
13. For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15. But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16. I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20. idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21. envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23. gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Note that Paul's words are addressed to "brethren". Moral laws, which involve our actions toward each other, are fulfilled if we love others as we ought. And of course, the highest command is to love God. The sinful practices Paul lists in verses 19-21 are not loving actions, and are offensive to God and harmful to others, either directly or indirectly.
It should be noted that Paul speaks of practicing such things. The word "practice" is a present participle, indicating continuously or repeatedly indulging in the particular sin. In other words, it is the normal behavior of the person.
Douglas' words are worth repeating:
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (New King James Version)
24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified
God bless, Homer
Perhaps the following passage was in the pastor's mind:
Galatians 5:13-26 (New King James Version)
13. For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15. But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16. I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20. idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21. envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23. gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Note that Paul's words are addressed to "brethren". Moral laws, which involve our actions toward each other, are fulfilled if we love others as we ought. And of course, the highest command is to love God. The sinful practices Paul lists in verses 19-21 are not loving actions, and are offensive to God and harmful to others, either directly or indirectly.
It should be noted that Paul speaks of practicing such things. The word "practice" is a present participle, indicating continuously or repeatedly indulging in the particular sin. In other words, it is the normal behavior of the person.
Douglas' words are worth repeating:
Has the person given in to the sin or is the person struggling against it with a penitant heart? As Paul indicated, we have an ongoing battle against the flesh:When a Christian sins, he feels remorseful and is convicted of that sin, and hopefuly repents and desires not to sin again. His intention is to not repeat that sin again, even though that may not be a reality yet. Hopefuly over time one grows and matures and the frequency of a "pet" sin will diminish and eventualy they will be free from such. It may take days, years, or even a lifetime.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (New King James Version)
24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified
God bless, Homer
Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
Thank you for all the replies.
I suppose I was a little frustrated with the statement that the pastor made. Mainly because He didn't qualify his statement or lend much scriptural Interpretation to the passages he quoted amongst are the ones you folks posted here.
I appreciate your interpretation and encouragement. and all the different views on the application of the scriptures.
I have family members who have professed to be saved, got baptized, lived a Godly life and then fell away and live in sin and have been for many many years. It is my hope that they will not fall into the category of the "unbelievers".
I know some will state that they were never really "born again". Its hard for me to accept such a statement.
I suppose I was a little frustrated with the statement that the pastor made. Mainly because He didn't qualify his statement or lend much scriptural Interpretation to the passages he quoted amongst are the ones you folks posted here.
I appreciate your interpretation and encouragement. and all the different views on the application of the scriptures.
I have family members who have professed to be saved, got baptized, lived a Godly life and then fell away and live in sin and have been for many many years. It is my hope that they will not fall into the category of the "unbelievers".
I know some will state that they were never really "born again". Its hard for me to accept such a statement.
Re: Addictions, Habitual Sin and the "kingdom of heaven"
Hi Philman,
You wrote:
You wrote:
You will never hear from me that they were never born again! For those who have fallen away, Pray and never give up! I prayed almost daily for a close relative in similar circumstances and after 20 years of prayers the lost sheep is back home. Praise God!I have family members who have professed to be saved, got baptized, lived a Godly life and then fell away and live in sin and have been for many many years. It is my hope that they will not fall into the category of the "unbelievers".
I know some will state that they were never really "born again". Its hard for me to accept such a statement.