I think this issue boils down to your view of God's will as either a train track or a parking lot. If you have a train track view then you think there is a very specific path God has in mind for you for everything. The parking lot view is more open and as long as you don't leave the lot your free to make choices.
There are examples of faithful people hearing directly from God about what they should do and other examples of casting lots to see God's will. There is also scripture that tells us not to test God.
I tend toward the parking lot view. I'm pretty sure if God wants you to buy a specific house there is nothing you can do to prevent it. If He doesn't want you to buy a specific house then there isn't anything you can do to get it. I think He cares more about how you represent Him regardless of where you live.
This doesn't mean I don't think God has specific tasks He wants specific people to do at specific times. But if that is the case, i also think you will get a burning bush in your back yard letting know for sure.
tim
Being led by God?
Re: Being led by God?
I think it is much more multi-faceted than just a train track or a parking lot. How about instead it's like a relationship?
I don't want to sound like one of those tiresome denominational apologists that come on here from time to time, but I'd like to share something quite powerful that I've experienced in this regard, which I alluded to earlier.
A core belief of Quakers is that we can be directly led and instructed by Jesus. On the other hand we need one another for counsel, discernment and edification. I've had some opportunities over the last few months to be a part of Quaker "listening groups." These are small ad hoc groups of people that gather, once or a few times, to help another person discern God's guidance--usually regarding a major decision or area of concern in their life.
The person with the concern describes the situation to the group. Members of the group will ask clarifying questions, but will not attempt to give advice. Then the group will pray and sit silently together listending for God's guidance. There is no hurry or discomfort with long periods of silence. If someone receives a word or impression which they believe might be God-given, they share it. It might then be discussed. The person with the concern may say "No, I don't think that's right" or it may open up some new insight into the matter. The process of listening, sharing, discussing, listening some more, etc., may take a few hours, but gradually a clear sense of direction often emerges.
What has amazed me when I've participated in these listening groups is how often the "answer" ends up being something totally beyond what anyone was initially thinking and yet is exciting and affirming to the recipient. The "answer" also doesn't come from one person but takes shape as members of the group share what they are hearing from God. No one person is able to take credit.
If God is the Living God; if Jesus is risen ;if the Holy Spirit is our teacher; and if we are called to be the Body of Christ; then this type of communal discernment makes perfect sense. I guess the worst-case scenario--if nothing happens--is that some brothers and sisters loved that person enough to spend time seeking God's guidance together with them. Every time I've done it though, much more than that has occurred.
I want to be careful to not suggest this as a fool-proof decision-making formula. But, as I said, my own experience with it has been remarkable. Your mileage may vary...
I don't want to sound like one of those tiresome denominational apologists that come on here from time to time, but I'd like to share something quite powerful that I've experienced in this regard, which I alluded to earlier.
A core belief of Quakers is that we can be directly led and instructed by Jesus. On the other hand we need one another for counsel, discernment and edification. I've had some opportunities over the last few months to be a part of Quaker "listening groups." These are small ad hoc groups of people that gather, once or a few times, to help another person discern God's guidance--usually regarding a major decision or area of concern in their life.
The person with the concern describes the situation to the group. Members of the group will ask clarifying questions, but will not attempt to give advice. Then the group will pray and sit silently together listending for God's guidance. There is no hurry or discomfort with long periods of silence. If someone receives a word or impression which they believe might be God-given, they share it. It might then be discussed. The person with the concern may say "No, I don't think that's right" or it may open up some new insight into the matter. The process of listening, sharing, discussing, listening some more, etc., may take a few hours, but gradually a clear sense of direction often emerges.
What has amazed me when I've participated in these listening groups is how often the "answer" ends up being something totally beyond what anyone was initially thinking and yet is exciting and affirming to the recipient. The "answer" also doesn't come from one person but takes shape as members of the group share what they are hearing from God. No one person is able to take credit.
If God is the Living God; if Jesus is risen ;if the Holy Spirit is our teacher; and if we are called to be the Body of Christ; then this type of communal discernment makes perfect sense. I guess the worst-case scenario--if nothing happens--is that some brothers and sisters loved that person enough to spend time seeking God's guidance together with them. Every time I've done it though, much more than that has occurred.
I want to be careful to not suggest this as a fool-proof decision-making formula. But, as I said, my own experience with it has been remarkable. Your mileage may vary...
My blog: http://dannycoleman.blogspot.com
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read’st black where I read white.”
-- William Blake
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read’st black where I read white.”
-- William Blake
Re: Being led by God?
Sean,
I think circumstances are overrated as a way to know God's will. I've always liked cars and have at times spent money unwisely on them. Years ago we had enough money to pay off the mortgage on our home. I had gone into town and picked up a cashier's check to go the the bank that held our mortgage. On the way to the bank, as I drove by an auto showroom I noticed a new model of a car that I liked very much. I stoped to admire the car. Hmm. Color I liked. Money in my pocket. Circumstances? I got out of there quickly, continued to the bank, and paid off the mortgage.
OK, was God telling me through circumstances to buy the car I admired or was he testing me through circumstances to see if I would be a good steward? Seems to me from reading his word and following the leading of the Spirit, the answer wasn't too difficult to determine.
It is my belief that God's will is open to various choices we might wish to make, i.e., there is not just one choice that is God's will in most circumstances. But, He has set parameters around us to guide us, they are delineated in His word, and outside that "fence" is sin. Do I enjoy food? Yes, but gluttony is not OK. Does God have an interest whether I eat cornbread and beans for supper or should I eat Chicken soup? I do not think He is the least bit interested.
If a Christian is generous in the causes God is interested in (evangelism, the poor, etc.) I do not think there is anything wrong in providing your family with a nice home provided you can afford it. Be patient. The deal fell through. There will be another.
I think circumstances are overrated as a way to know God's will. I've always liked cars and have at times spent money unwisely on them. Years ago we had enough money to pay off the mortgage on our home. I had gone into town and picked up a cashier's check to go the the bank that held our mortgage. On the way to the bank, as I drove by an auto showroom I noticed a new model of a car that I liked very much. I stoped to admire the car. Hmm. Color I liked. Money in my pocket. Circumstances? I got out of there quickly, continued to the bank, and paid off the mortgage.
OK, was God telling me through circumstances to buy the car I admired or was he testing me through circumstances to see if I would be a good steward? Seems to me from reading his word and following the leading of the Spirit, the answer wasn't too difficult to determine.
It is my belief that God's will is open to various choices we might wish to make, i.e., there is not just one choice that is God's will in most circumstances. But, He has set parameters around us to guide us, they are delineated in His word, and outside that "fence" is sin. Do I enjoy food? Yes, but gluttony is not OK. Does God have an interest whether I eat cornbread and beans for supper or should I eat Chicken soup? I do not think He is the least bit interested.
If a Christian is generous in the causes God is interested in (evangelism, the poor, etc.) I do not think there is anything wrong in providing your family with a nice home provided you can afford it. Be patient. The deal fell through. There will be another.
Last edited by Homer on Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Being led by God?
Psalm 32:8-9
"I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you. Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, otherwise they will not come near to you."
I think God wants us to use the intellectual gifts and ability He has given us. We shouldn't always expect Him to lead us around by the mouth, we are to use our reasoning faculties. When we make decisions with His general revealed will in mind, seeking to please Him in the process as well as the final outcome, even though a specific morally neutral choice has not been validated one way or the other by Him, we are choosing correctly IMHO
In Him,
Jess.
"I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you. Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, otherwise they will not come near to you."
I think God wants us to use the intellectual gifts and ability He has given us. We shouldn't always expect Him to lead us around by the mouth, we are to use our reasoning faculties. When we make decisions with His general revealed will in mind, seeking to please Him in the process as well as the final outcome, even though a specific morally neutral choice has not been validated one way or the other by Him, we are choosing correctly IMHO
In Him,
Jess.
Re: Being led by God?
Hi Sean,... I tried sending a private message but believe I failed. So I'll just post here.....
This subject has been one of the biggest trouble spots to many, many people of the faith. I know I have struggled with it and have seen others struggle also. It can be very troubling.
The single most important book on this topic in my life has been Garry Freisen's book, Decision making and the will of God. This book looks at the most prevalent view, and compares it with the wisdom view.
This book also has a workbook in the back to study and compare. It might take a couple of readings, but is great information for studying and clearing up this question.
The author is the Dean of Professors at Multnomah University, (Multnomah bible college) in Portland, Oregon. He has a website, and can be checked out on the college website, and I have actually contacted him by phone, (he would probably take a call).
You can get his book on line, probably anywhere, or from multnomah publishers.
He will tell you himself that this is not the widely accepted view, but it is a comparison of the widely accepted view and what he calls the way of wisdom.
God bless,and remember to PROVE ALL THINGS.....Don
This subject has been one of the biggest trouble spots to many, many people of the faith. I know I have struggled with it and have seen others struggle also. It can be very troubling.
The single most important book on this topic in my life has been Garry Freisen's book, Decision making and the will of God. This book looks at the most prevalent view, and compares it with the wisdom view.
This book also has a workbook in the back to study and compare. It might take a couple of readings, but is great information for studying and clearing up this question.
The author is the Dean of Professors at Multnomah University, (Multnomah bible college) in Portland, Oregon. He has a website, and can be checked out on the college website, and I have actually contacted him by phone, (he would probably take a call).
You can get his book on line, probably anywhere, or from multnomah publishers.
He will tell you himself that this is not the widely accepted view, but it is a comparison of the widely accepted view and what he calls the way of wisdom.
God bless,and remember to PROVE ALL THINGS.....Don
Re: Being led by God?
I thought I would give an update on my family buying a house (since it was a point I brought up in the opening post).
We decided that since things didn't seem to be going the way we thought they should, we pulled our house off the market about the middle of last year. The house we thought we should buy fell through in a somewhat strange way. So we prayed that if we should sell our house that God bring a buyer to us, without our house even being up for sale.
Near the end of last year we got a phone call from a friend. They said they wanted to buy our house if it was for sale. Unfortunately it is because a divorce is coming. We tried to figure out if there is any way around the divorce but the husband is wanting to leave, sell the house and split the money. After having their house on the market they were having trouble with their agent and were going to possibly go to another real estate company or sell it outright. We told them we could buy their house and house swap with the wife and solve both our problems at once. We should be drawing up a contract this week sometime so hopefully all goes well.
It seems that there was a path God had for us after all, it just required us to be patient. It seems that all our actions were "right", even though we didn't understand what was going on at the time because things seemed to be turning out "wrong". And while I don't like the idea that a family is breaking up, at least we are providing a home for someone who is the innocent party of the divorce.
We decided that since things didn't seem to be going the way we thought they should, we pulled our house off the market about the middle of last year. The house we thought we should buy fell through in a somewhat strange way. So we prayed that if we should sell our house that God bring a buyer to us, without our house even being up for sale.
Near the end of last year we got a phone call from a friend. They said they wanted to buy our house if it was for sale. Unfortunately it is because a divorce is coming. We tried to figure out if there is any way around the divorce but the husband is wanting to leave, sell the house and split the money. After having their house on the market they were having trouble with their agent and were going to possibly go to another real estate company or sell it outright. We told them we could buy their house and house swap with the wife and solve both our problems at once. We should be drawing up a contract this week sometime so hopefully all goes well.
It seems that there was a path God had for us after all, it just required us to be patient. It seems that all our actions were "right", even though we didn't understand what was going on at the time because things seemed to be turning out "wrong". And while I don't like the idea that a family is breaking up, at least we are providing a home for someone who is the innocent party of the divorce.
He will not fail nor be discouraged till He has established justice in the earth. (Isaiah 42:4)
Re: Being led by God?
Wow, that is so cool......it really helps me think about some situations in my life....thanks...Sean wrote:I thought I would give an update on my family buying a house (since it was a point I brought up in the opening post).
We decided that since things didn't seem to be going the way we thought they should, we pulled our house off the market about the middle of last year. The house we thought we should buy fell through in a somewhat strange way. So we prayed that if we should sell our house that God bring a buyer to us, without our house even being up for sale.
Near the end of last year we got a phone call from a friend. They said they wanted to buy our house if it was for sale. Unfortunately it is because a divorce is coming. We tried to figure out if there is any way around the divorce but the husband is wanting to leave, sell the house and split the money. After having their house on the market they were having trouble with their agent and were going to possibly go to another real estate company or sell it outright. We told them we could buy their house and house swap with the wife and solve both our problems at once. We should be drawing up a contract this week sometime so hopefully all goes well.
It seems that there was a path God had for us after all, it just required us to be patient. It seems that all our actions were "right", even though we didn't understand what was going on at the time because things seemed to be turning out "wrong". And while I don't like the idea that a family is breaking up, at least we are providing a home for someone who is the innocent party of the divorce.
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23