Is the Holy Spirit a person?

_STEVE7150
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:38 pm

Is the Holy Spirit a person?

Post by _STEVE7150 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:51 am

One of the great things about this forum is that you can critically look at issues like this and eternal hell without being tossed.
Many believe the Holy Spirit to be a force or influence of God or even a personal force of God. In Psalms 8.3, 19.1, Matt 12.28, Luke 11.20 the Holy Spirit is described as God's hands and fingers. The hebrew word "ruach" can have a variety of meanings including breath,air,strength,wind,breeze,spirit,courage,temper and Spirit. Also normally a person would have a name why not the Holy Spirit? And the same greek word used for Spirit is used for anyone's spirit like Paul's spirit or an evil spirit or unclean spirit. And the greek word used for the HS "pneuma" is neuter or gender neutral which implies non personhood.

However it is recognized that the three primary attributes of personality are mind,emotions and will.
In 1 Cor 2.10 we are told "the Spirit searches all things."
In 1 Cor 2.11 "the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of God."
Romans 8.27 "The Father knows the mind of the Spirit."
Eph 4.30 "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit."
1 Cor 12.11 "the Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts to each one individually just as He wills."
John 14.26 "the Holy Spirit teaches believers."
John 15.26 He testifies of Christ and bears witness of Christ
Matt 12.32,Mark 3.29 He can be blasphemed
Romans 8.14 He guides believers
Acts 13.4 He commissions people
Acts 8.29 He issues commands
Gen 6.3 He restrains sin
Romans 8.26 He intercedes or prays
John 15.26, 2 Pet 1.21 He speaks to people
Acts 5.3 He can be lied to
Acts 13.2,Acts 10 He can be obeyed

What is your opinion, is the Holy Spirit a person?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:

User avatar
_TK
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:10 pm
Location: Northeast Ohio

Post by _TK » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:18 am

I have always believed the HS is not merely a force or a representation. I can think of Jesus as a person because, well he became a person and is still a person. This is a little more difficult with the HS. That being said, i believe that the HS is indeed a distinct entity from the Father and the Son; he has personhood; how he operates is a mystery to me. Jesus got a little impatient with Nicodemus in John 3 because he wasnt grasping what he was telling him about the Spirit. He made to comparison of the wind in the trees, etc. but i must confess, Jesus didnt clear it up that much for me, no matter how many times I read that passage. There's nothing wrong with a little mystery; as long as i am able to sense the Spirit working so that I can obey his leading, i am satisfied.

TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)

User avatar
_darin-houston
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:07 am
Location: Houston, TX

Post by _darin-houston » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:24 pm

I've been reading a bit more on this subject, and am working through the following exerpt from Hodge's Systematic Theology (pdf version available at http://www.ccel.org/h/hodge/):


CHAPTER VIII.

THE HOLY SPIRIT.
_________________________________________________________________

? 1. His Nature.

The words R+W+uH+a and pneuma are used in different senses, both
literal and figurative, in the sacred Scriptures. They properly mean
wind, as when our Lord says, "The pneuma bloweth where it listeth;"
then any invisible power; then immaterial, invisible agents, as the
soul and angels; then God himself, who is said to be a Spirit, to
express his nature as an immaterial, intelligent being; and finally,
the Third Person of the Trinity is called "The Spirit" by way of
eminence, probably, for two reasons. First, because He is the power or
efficiency of God, i.e., the person through whom the efficiency of God
is directly exercised; and secondly, to express his relation to the
other persons of the Trinity. As Father and Son are terms expressive
of relation, it is natural to infer that the word Spirit is to be
understood in the same way. The Son is called the Word, as the
revealer or image of God, and the Third Person is called Spirit as his
breath or power. He is also predominantly called the Holy Spirit, to
indicate both his nature and operations. He is absolutely holy in his
own nature, and the cause of holiness in all creatures. For the same
reason He is called the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of Wisdom, of
Peace, of Love, and of Glory.

A. His Personality.

The two points to be considered in reference to this subject, are,
first the nature, and second the office or work of the Holy Spirit.
With regard to his nature, is He a person or a mere power? and if a
person, is He created or divine, finite or infinite? The personality
of the Spirit has been the faith of the Church from the beginning. It
had few opponents even in the chaotic period of theology and in modern
times has been denied by none but Socinians, Arians, and Sabellians.
Before considering the direct proof of the Church doctrine that the
Holy Spirit is a person, it may be well to remark, that the terms "The
Spirit," "The Spirit of God," "The Holy Sprit," and when God speaks,
"My Spirit," or, when God is spoken of "His Spirit," occur in all
parts of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. These and equivalent
terms are evidently to be understood in the same sense throughout the
Scriptures. If the Spirit of God which moved on the face of the
waters, which strove with the antediluvians, which came upon Moses,
which gave skill to artisans, and which inspired the prophets, is the
power of God; then the Spirit which came upon the Apostles, which
Christ promised to send as a comforter and advocate, and to which the
instruction, sanctification, and guidance of the people of God are
referred, must also be the power of God. But if the Spirit is clearly
revealed to be a person in the later parts of Scripture, it is plain
that the earlier portions must be understood in the same way. One part
of the Bible, and much less one or a few passages must not be taken by
themselves, and receive any interpretation which the isolated words
may bear, but Scripture must interpret Scripture. Another obvious
remark on this subject is, that the Spirit of God is equally prominent
in all parts of the word of God. His intervention does not occur on
rare occasions, as the appearance of angels, or the Theophanies, of
which mention is made here and there in the sacred volume; but He is
represented as everywhere present and everywhere operative. We might
as well strike from the Bible the name and doctrine of God, as the
name and office of the Spirit. In the New Testament alone He is
mentioned not far from three hundred times. It is not only, however,
merely the frequency with which the Spirit is mentioned, and the
prominence given to his person and work, but the multiplied and
interesting relations in which He is represented as standing to the
people of God, the importance and number of his gifts, and the
absolute dependence of the believer and of the Church upon Him for
spiritual and eternal life, which render the doctrine of the Holy
Ghost absolutely fundamental to the gospel. The work of the Spirit in
applying the redemption of Christ is represented to be as essential as
that redemption itself. It is therefore indispensable that we should
know what the Bible teaches concerning the Holy Ghost, both as to his
nature and office.

Proof of his Personality.

The Scriptures clearly teach that He is a person. Personality includes
intelligence, will, and individual subsistence. If, therefore, it can
be proved that all these are attributed to the Spirit, it is thereby
proved that He is a person. It will not be necessary or advisable to
separate the proofs of these several points, and cite passages which
ascribe to Him intelligence; and then others which attribute to Him
will; and still others to prove his individual subsistence, because
all these are often included in one and the same passage; and
arguments which prove the one, in many cases prove also the others.

1. The first argument for the personality of the Holy Spirit is
derived from the use of the personal pronouns in relation to Him. A
person is that which, when speaking, says I; when addressed, is called
thou; and when spoken of, is called he, or him. It is indeed admitted
that there is such a rhetorical figure as personification; that
inanimate or irrational beings, or sentiments, or attributes, may be
introduced as speaking, or addressed as persons. But this creates no
difficulty. The cases of personification are such as do not, except in
rare instances, admit of any doubt. The fact that men sometimes
apostrophize the heavens, or the elements, gives no pretext for
explaining as personification all the passages in which God or Christ
is introduced as a person. So also with regard to the Holy Spirit. He
is introduced as a person so often, not merely in poetic or excited
discourse, but in simple narrative, and in didactic instructions; and
his personality is sustained by so many collateral proofs, that to
explain the use of the personal pronouns in relation to Him on the
principle of personification, is to do violence to all the rules of
interpretation. Thus in Acts xiii. 2, "The Holy Ghost said, Separate
me Barnabas and Saul, for the work whereunto I have called them." Our
Lord says (John xv. 26), "When the Comforter (ho parakletos) is come
whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth
(to pneuma tes aletheias) which (ho) proceedeth from the Father, He
(ekeinos) shall testify of me." The use of the masculine pronoun He
instead of it, shows that the Spirit is a person. It may indeed be
said that as parakletos is masculine, the pronoun referring to it must
of course be in the same gender. But as the explanatory words to
pneuma intervene, to which the neuter ho refers, the following pronoun
would naturally be in the neuter, if the subject spoken of, the
pneuma, were not a person. In the following chapter (John xvi. 13, 14)
there is no ground for this objection. It is there said, "When He
(evkei/noj), the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all
truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall
hear, that shall He speak, and He will show you things to come. He
shall glorify me (ekeinos eme doxasei): for He shall receive of mine,
and shall show it unto you." Here there is no possibility of
accounting for the use of the personal pronoun He (ekeinos) on any
other ground than the personality of the Spirit.

2. We stand in relations to the Holy Spirit which we can sustain only
to a person. He is the object of our faith. We believe on the Holy
Ghost. This faith we profess in baptism. We are baptized not only in
the name of the Father and of the Son, but also of the Holy Ghost. The
very association of the Spirit in such a connection, with the Father
and the Son, as they are admitted to be distinct persons, proves that
the Spirit also is a person. Besides the use of the word eis to onoma,
unto the name, admits of no other explanation. By baptism we profess
to acknowledge the Spirit as we acknowledge the Father and the Son,
and we bind ourselves to the one as well as to the others. If when the
Apostle tells the Corinthians that they were not baptized eis to onoma
Paulou, and when he says that the Hebrews were baptized unto Moses, he
means that the Corinthians were not, and that the Hebrews were made
the disciples, the one of Paul and the others of Moses; then when we
are baptized unto the name of the Spirit, the meaning is that in
baptism we profess to be his disciples; we bind ourselves to receive
his instructions, and to submit to his control. We stand in the same
relation to Him as to the Father and to the Son; we acknowledge Him to
be a person as distinctly as we acknowledge the personality of the
Son, or of the Father. Christians not only profess to believe on the
Holy Ghost, but they are also the recipients of his gifts. He is to
them an object of prayer. In the apostolic benediction, the grace of
Christ, the love of the Father, and the fellowship of the Holy Ghost,
are solemnly invoked. We pray to the Spirit for the communication of
Himself to us, that He may, according to the promise of our Lord,
dwell in us, as we pray to Christ that we may be the objects of his
unmerited love. Accordingly we are exhorted not "to sin against," "not
to resist," not "to grieve" the Holy Spirit. He is represented,
therefore, as a person who can be the object of our acts; whom we may
please or offend; with whom we may have communion, i.e., personal
intercourse; who can love and be loved; who can say "thou" to us; and
whom we can invoke in every time of need.

3. The Spirit also sustains relations to us, and performs offices
which none but a person can sustain or perform. He is our teacher,
sanctifier, comforter, and guide. He governs every believer who is led
by the Spirit, and the whole Church. He calls as He called Barnabas
and Saul, to the work of the ministry, or to some special field of
labour. Pastors or bishops are made overseers by the Holy Ghost.

4. In the exercise of these and other functions, personal acts are
constantly attributed to the Spirit in the Bible; that is, such acts
as imply intelligence, will, and activity or power. The Spirit
searches, selects, reveals, and reproves. We often read that "The
Spirit said." (Acts xiii. 2; xxi. 11; 1 Tim. iv. 1, etc., etc.) This
is so constantly done, that the Spirit appears as a personal agent
from one end of the Scriptures to the other, so that his personality
is beyond dispute. The only possible question is whether He is a
distinct person from the Father. But of this there can be no
reasonable doubt, as He is said to be the Spirit of God and the Spirit
which is of God (ek theou);as He is distinguished from the Father in
the forms of baptism and benediction; as He proceeds from the Father;
and as He is promised, sent, and given by the Father. So that to
confound the Holy Spirit with God would be to render the Scriptures
unintelligible.

5. All the elements of personality, namely, intelligence, will, and
individual subsistence, are not only involved in all that is thus
revealed concerning the relation in which the Spirit stands to us and
that which we sustain to Him, but they are all distinctly attributed
to Him. The Spirit is said to know, to will, and to act. He searches,
or knows all things, even the deep things of God. No man knoweth the
things of God, but the Spirit of God. (1 Cor. ii. 10, 12.) He
distributes "to every man severally as he will." (1 Cor. xii. 11.) His
individual subsistence is involved in his being an agent, and in his
being the object on which the activity of others terminates. If He can
be loved, reverenced, and obeyed, or offended and sinned against, He
must be a person.

6. The personal manifestations of the Spirit, when He descended on
Christ after his baptism, and upon the Apostles at the day of
Pentecost, of necessity involve his personal subsistence. It was not
any attribute of God, nor his mere efficiency, but God himself, that
was manifested in the burning bush, in the fire and clouds on Mount
Sinai, in the pillar which guided the Israelites through the
wilderness, and in the glory which dwelt in the Tabernacle and in the
Temple.

7. The people of God have always regarded the Holy Spirit as a person.
They have looked to Him for instruction, sanctification, direction,
and comfort. This is part of their religion. Christianity
(subjectively considered) would not be what it is without this sense
of dependence on the Spirit, and this love and reverence for his
person. All the liturgies, prayers, and praises of the Church, are
filled with appeals and addresses to the Holy Ghost. This is a fact
which admits of no rational solution if the Scriptures do not really
teach that the Spirit is a distinct person. The rule Quod semper, quod
ubique, quod ab omnibus, is held by Protestants as well as by
Romanists. It is not to the authority of general consent as an
evidence of truth, that Protestants object, but to the applications
made of it by the Papal Church, and to the principle on which that
authority is made to rest. All Protestants admit that true believers
in every age and country have one faith, as well as one God and one
Lord.

B. Divinity of the Holy Spirit.

On this subject there has been little dispute in the Church. The
Spirit is so prominently presented in the Bible as possessing divine
attributes, and exercising divine prerogatives, that since the fourth
century his true divinity has never been denied by those who admit his
personality.

1. In the Old Testament, all that is said of Jehovah is said of the
Spirit of Jehovah; and therefore, if the latter is not a mere
periphrase for the former, he must of necessity be divine. The
expressions, Jehovah said, and, the Spirit said, are constantly
interchanged; and the acts of the Spirit are said to be acts of God.

2. In the New Testament, the language of Jehovah is quoted as the
language of the Spirit. In Is. vi. 9, it is written, Jehovah said, "Go
and tell this people," etc. This passage is thus quoted by Paul, Acts
xxviii. 25, "Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet," etc. In
Jeremiah xxxi. 31, 33, 34, it is said, "Behold the days come, saith
Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel;"
which is quoted by the Apostle in Heb. x. 15, saying, "Whereof the
Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,
saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their hearts," etc. Thus
constantly the language of God is quoted as the language of the Holy
Ghost. The prophets were the messengers of God; they uttered his
words, delivered his commands, pronounced his threatenings, and
announced his promises, because they spake as they were moved by the
Holy Ghost. They were the organs of God, because they were the organs
of the Spirit. The Spirit, therefore, must be God.

3. In the New Testament the same mode of representation is continued.
Believers are the temple of God, because the Spirit dwells in them.
Eph. ii. 22: Ye are "a habitation of God through the Spirit." 1 Cor.
vi. 19: "Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost
which is in you, which ye have of God?" In Rom. viii. 9, 10, the
indwelling of Christ is said to be the indwelling of the Spirit of
Christ, and that is said to be the indwelling of the Spirit of God. In
Acts v. 1-4, Ananias is said to have lied unto God because he lied
against the Holy Ghost.

4. Our Lord and his Apostles constantly speak of the Holy Spirit as
possessing all divine perfections. Christ says, "All manner of sin and
blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the
Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." (Matt. xii. 31.) The
unpardonable sin, then, is speaking against the Holy Ghost. This could
not be unless the Holy Ghost were God. The Apostle, in 1 Cor. ii. 10,
11, says that the Spirit knows all things, even the deep things (the
most secret purposes) of God. His knowledge is commensurate with the
knowledge of God. He knows the things of God as the spirit of a man
knows the things of a man. The consciousness of God is the
consciousness of the Spirit. The Psalmist teaches us that the Spirit
is omnipresent and everywhere efficient. "Whither," he asks, "shall I
go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?" (Ps.
cxxxix. 7.) The presence of the Spirit is the presence of God. The
same idea is expressed by the prophet when he says, "Can any hide
himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith Jehovah. Do
not I fill heaven and earth? saith Jehovah." (Jer. xxiii. 24.)

5. The works of the Spirit are the works of God. He fashioned the
world. (Gen. i. 2.) He regenerates the soul: to be born of the Spirit
is to be born of God. He is the source of all knowledge; the giver of
inspiration; the teacher, the guide, the sanctifier, and the comforter
of the Church in all ages. He fashions our bodies; He formed the body
of Christ, as a fit habitation for the fulness of the Godhead; and He
is to quicken our mortal bodies. (Rom. viii. 11.)

6. He is therefore presented in the Scriptures as the proper object of
worship, not only in the formula of baptism and in the apostolic
benediction, which bring the doctrine of the Trinity into constant
remembrance as the fundamental truth of our religion, but abo in the
constant requirement that we look to Him and depend upon Him for all
spiritual good, and reverence and obey Him as our divine teacher and
sanctifier.

Relation of the Spirit to the Father and to the Son.

The relation of the Spirit to the other persons of the Trinity has
been stated before. (1.) He is the same in substance and equal in
power and glory. (2.) He is subordinate to the Father and Son, as to
his mode of subsistence and operation, as He is said to be of the
Father and of the Son; He is sent by them, and they operate through
Him. (3.) He bears the same relation to the Father as to the Son; as
He is said to be of the one as well as of the other, and He is given
by the Son as well as by the Father. (4.) His eternal relation to the
other persons of the Trinity is indicated by the word Spirit, and by
its being said that he is ek toi theou, out of God, i.e., God is the
source whence the Spirit is said to proceed.
_________________________________________________________________

? 2. The Office of the Holy Spirit.

A. In Nature.

The general doctrine of the Scriptures on this subject is that the
Spirit is the executive of the Godhead. Whatever God does, He does by
the Spirit. Hence in the creed of Constantinople, adopted by the
Church universal, He is said to be to Pneuma, to kurion, to zoopoion.
He is the immediate source of all life. Even in the external world the
Spirit is everywhere present and everywhere active. Matter is not
intelligent. It has its peculiar properties, which act blindly
according to established laws. The intelligence, therefore, manifested
in vegetable and animal structures, is not to he referred to matter,
but to the omnipresent Spirit of God. It was He who brooded over the
waters and reduced chaos into order. It was He who garnished the
heavens. It is He that causes the grass to grow. The Psalmist says of
all living creatures, "Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou
takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou
sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face
of the earth." (Ps. civ. 29, 30.) Compare Is. xxxii. 14, 15. Job,
speaking of his corporeal frame, says, "The Spirit of God hath made
me." (Job xxxiii. 4.) And the Psalmist, after describing the
omnipresence of the Spirit refers to his agency the wonderful
mechanism of the human body. "I am fearfully and wonderfully made
. . . . my substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret,
and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did
see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members
were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there
was none of them." (Ps. cxxxix. 14-16.) Cyprian (or the author of the
Tract "De Spiritu Sancto," included in his works) says, "Hic Spiritus
Sanctus ab ipso mundi initio aquis legitur superfusus; non
materialibus aquis quasi vehiculo egens, quas potius ipse ferebat et
complectentibus firmamentum dabat con gruum motum et limitem
pr?finitum. . . . [Hic est] spiritus vit? cujus vivificus calor animat
omnia et fovet et provehit et foecundat. Hic Spiritus Sanctus omnium
viventium anima, ita largitate sua se omnibus abundanter infundit, ut
habeant omnia rationabilia et irrationabilia secundum genus suum ex eo
quod sunt et quod in suo ordine su? natur? competentia agunt. Non quod
ipse sit substantialis anima singulis, sed in se singulariter manens,
de plenitudine sua distributor magnificus proprias efficientias
singulis dividit et largitur; et quasi sol omnia calefaciens, subjecta
omnia nutrit, et absque ulla sui diminutione, integritatem suam de
inexhausta abundantia, quod satis est, et sufficit omnibus, commodat
et impartit." [506]

The Spirit the Source of all Intellectual Life.

The Spirit is also represented as the source of all intellectual life.
When man was created it is said God "breathed into his nostrils the
breath of life; and man became (N+?P+?Sh X+aJ+uoH+) a living soul."
(Gen. ii. 7.) Job xxxii. 8, says, The inspiration of the Almighty
giveth men understanding, i.e., a rational nature, for it is explained
by saying, He "teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and
maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven." (Job xxxv. 11.) The
Scriptures ascribe in like manner to Him all special or extraordinary
gifts. Thus it is said of Bezaleel, "I have called" him, "and I have
filed him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in
knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to devise cunning works,
to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass." (Ex. xxxi. 2, 3, 4.) By
his Spirit God gave Moses the wisdom requisite for his high duties,
and when he was commanded to devolve part of his burden upon the
seventy elders, it was said, "I will take of the Spirit which is upon
thee, and will put it upon them." (Num. xi. 17.) Joshua was appointed
to succeed Moses, because in him was the Spirit. (Num. xxvii. 18.) In
like manner the Judges, who from time to time were raised up, as
emergency demanded, were qualified by the Spirit for their peculiar
work, whether as rulers or as warriors. Of Othniel it is said, "The
Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he judged Israel and went out to
war." (Judges iii. 10.) So the Spirit of the Lord is said to have come
upon Gideon and on Jephthah and on Samson. When Saul offended God, the
Spirit of the Lord is said to have departed from him. (1 Sam. xvi.
14.) When Samuel anointed David, "The Spirit of the Lord came upon"
him "from that day forward." (1 Sam. xvi. 13.) In like manner under
the new dispensation the Spirit as represented as not only the author
of miraculous gifts, but also as the giver of the qualifications to
teach and rule in the Church. All these operations are independent of
the sanctifying influences of the Spirit. When the Spirit came on
Samson or upon Saul, it was not to render them holy, but to endue them
with extraordinary physical and intellectual power; and when He is
said to have departed from them, it means that those extraordinary
endowments were withdrawn.

B. The Spirits Office in the Work of Redemption.

With regard to the office of the Spirit in the work of redemption, the
Scriptures teach, --

1. That He fashioned the body, and endued the human soul of Christ
with every qualification for his work. To the Virgin Mary it was said,
"The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest
shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be
born of thee, shall be called the Son of God." (Luke i. 35.) The
prophet Isaiah predicted that the Messiah should be replenished with
all spiritual gifts. "Behold my servant whom I uphold; mine elect in
whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring
forth judgment to the Gentiles." (Is. xlii. 1.) "There shall come
forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of
his roots: and the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit
of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the
spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord." (Is. xi. 1, 2.) When
our Lord appeared on earth, it is said that the Spirit without measure
was given unto Him. (John iii. 34.) "And John bare record, saying, I
saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon
him." (John i. 32.) He was, therefore, said to have been full of the
Holy Ghost.

2. That the Spirit is the revealer of all divine truth. The doctrines
of the Bible are called the things of the Spirit. With regard to the
writers of the Old Testament, it is said they spake as they were moved
by the Holy Ghost. The language of Micah is applicable to all the
prophets, "Truly I am full of power by the Spirit of the Lord, and of
judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression and to
Israel his sin." (Micah iii. 8.) What David said, the Holy Ghost is
declared to have said. The New Testament writers were in like manner
the organs of the Spirit. The doctrines which Paul preached he did not
receive from men "but God," he says, "hath revealed them unto us by
his Spirit." (1 Cor. ii. 10.) The Spirit also guided the utterance of
those truths; for he adds, "Which things also we speak, not in the
words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
communicating the things of the Spirit in the words of the Spirit"
(pneumatikois pneumatika sunkrinontes). The whole Bible, therefore, is
to be referred to the Spirit as its author.

3. The Spirit not only thus reveals divine truth, having guided
infallibly holy men of old in recording it, but He everywhere attends
it by his power. All truth is enforced on the heart and conscience
with more or less power by the Holy Spirit, wherever that truth is
known. To this all-pervading influence we are indebted for all there
is of morality and order in the world. But besides this general
influence, which is usually called common grace, the Spirit specially
illuminates the minds of the children of God, that they may knew the
things freely given (or revealed to them) by God. The natural man does
not receive them, neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned. All believers are therefore called
(pneumatikoi) spiritual, because thus enlightened and guided by the
Spirit.

4. It is the special office of the Spirit to convince the world of
sin; to reveal Christ, to regenerate the soul, to lead men to the
exercise of faith and repentance; to dwell in those whom He thus
renews, as a principle of a new and divine life. By this indwelling of
the Spirit, believers are united to Christ, and to one another, so
that they form one body. This is the foundation of the communion of
saints, making them one in faith, one in love, one in their inward
life, and one in their hopes and final destiny.

5. The Spirit also calls men to office in the Church, and endows them
with the qualifications necessary for the successful discharge of its
duties. The office of the Church, in this matter, is simply to
ascertain and authenticate the call of the Spirit. Thus the Holy Ghost
is the immediate author of all truth, of all holiness, of all
consolation, of all authority, and of all efficiency in the children
of God individually, and in the Church collectively.
_________________________________________________________________

[506] Works, edit. Brem?, 1690, on p. 61 of the second set in the
Opuscula.
_________________________________________________________________

? 3. History of the Doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit.

During the Ante-Nicene period, the Church believed concerning the Holy
Ghost what was revealed on the surface of Scripture, and what was
involved in the religious experience of all Christians. There is to
them one God, the Father, whose favour they had forfeited by sin, and
to whom they must be reconciled: one Lord Jesus Christ, the only
begotten Son of God, through whom this reconciliation is effected; and
one Holy Spirit, by whom they are, through Christ, brought near to
God. This all Christians believed, as they professed in their baptism,
and in repeating and receiving the apostolic benediction. With this
simple faith underlying and sustaining the life of the Church, there
coexisted among theologians great obscurity, indistinctness, and
inconsistency of statement, especially in reference to the nature and
office of the Holy Ghost. This ought not to be a matter of surprise,
because in the Scriptures themselves the same work is often ascribed
to God and to the Spirit of God, which led some at times to assume
that these terms expressed one and the same thing; as the spirit of a
man is the man himself. In the Scriptures, also, the terms Word and
Breath (or Spirit) are often interchanged; and what in one place is
said to be done by the Word, in another is said to be done by the
Spirit. The Logos is represented as the life of the world and the
source of all knowledge, and yet the same is said of the Spirit. Paul
declares in one place (Gal. i. 12) that he received the doctrines
which he taught, by the revelation of Jesus Christ; in another (1 Cor.
ii. 10), that he was taught them by the Spirit. Misled by such
representation, some of the fathers identified the Son and Spirit.
Even Tertullian, in one place says, "Spiritus substantia est Sermonis,
et Sermo operatio Spiritus, et duo unum sunt." [507] Finally, as it is
plain from the Scripture that the Spirit is of the Son, as the Son is
of the Father (the difference between generation and procession being
perfectly inscrutable), all the Arians and semi-Arians who taught that
the Son was created by the Father, held that the Spirit was created by
the Son. This roused so much controversy and agitation, that first the
Council of Nice, A.D. 325, and then that of Constantinople, A.D. 381,
were called to frame a satisfactory statement of the Scriptural
doctrine on this subject. In the Creed of the Apostles, as it is
called, which is so ancient that Rufinus and Ambrose referred it to
the Apostles themselves, it is simply said, "I believe on the Holy
Ghost." The same words without addition are repeated in the Nicene
Creed, but in the Creed of Constantinople it is added, "I believe in
the Holy Ghost, the divine (to kurion), the life-giving, who
proceedeth from the Father, who is to be worshipped and glorified with
the Father and the Son, and who spake through the prophets." In the
Athanasian Creed (so-called), it is said that the Spirit is
consubstantial with the Father and the Son; that He is uncreated,
eternal, and omnipotent, equal in majesty and glory, and that He
proceeds from the Father and the Son. These creeds are Catholic,
adopted by the whole Church. Since they were framed there has been no
diversity of faith on this subject among those recognized as
Christians.

Those who, since the Council of Constantinople have denied the common
Church doctrine, whether Socinians, Arians, or Sabellians, regard the
Holy Spirit not as a creature, but as the power of God, i.e., the
manifested divine efficiency. The modern philosophical theologians of
Germany do not differ essentially from this view. De Wette, for
example, says, that the Spirit is God as revealed and operative in
nature; Schleiermacher says the term designates God as operative in
the Church, i.e., "der Gemeingeist der Kirche." This, however, is only
a name. God with Schleiermacher is only the unity of the causality
manifested in the world. That causality viewed in Christ we may call
Son, and viewed in the Church we may call the Spirit. God is merely
cause, and man a fleeting effect. Happily Schleiermacher's theology
and Schleiermacher's religion were as different as the speculations
and the every day faith of the idealist.
_________________________________________________________________

[507] Adversus Praxean, 15, Works, edit. Basle, 1562, p. 426.
_________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:

_STEVE7150
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:38 pm

Post by _STEVE7150 » Tue May 15, 2007 11:40 am

Just bumping this up since the Godhead is being discussed.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:

User avatar
_Paidion
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Chapple, Ontario

Post by _Paidion » Tue May 15, 2007 9:35 pm

If the Holy Spirit is a "third Person of the Trinity":

Did you ever wonder why writers of the NT speak of "the spirit of God" and "the spirit of Jesus" but never "the spirit of the Holy Spirit"?

Did you ever wonder why writers of the NT record prayers addressed to the Father, and prayers addressed to Jesus, but not a single instance of prayers addressed to the Holy Spirit is recorded?

Jesus promised that He and His Father would make their dwelling with the disciples. Did you ever wonder how they did that, when they dwell in heaven? Paul also speaks of "the Spirit which dwells in you." Did you ever wonder whether the Father and the Son who dwell with disciples of Christ, are, in fact, the Holy spirit?

Did you ever wonder why, in 2 Corinthians 3:17, the Lord (Jesus) is said to be the Spirit, not once, but twice?

I do not believe that the Spirit is merely the force of God. I don't believe that the mere fact that the Greek word for "spirit" is neuter in any way indicates that the Holy Spirit is impersonal. I believe the Spirit is personal, but not a third person.

Unlike us, the Father and the Son can extend their personalities anywhere in the universe, and especially in the hearts (or "minds" if you prefer) of the faithful. That is the Holy Spirit. Justin Martyr (2nd century) in the "Dialogue with Trypho" talked of "the Spirit speaking from the person of the Father..." and "the Spirit speaking from the person of the Son..." Both Justin and Trypho (a Jew) spoke of the Holy Spirit. Trypho, who believed in a single divine Person, certainly didn't think the Spirit was a separate person. And neither did Justin.

It is not clear that the Spirit is referred to as "He" in most passages, although it is so translated. For in Greek, the ending of a verb determines the person and number, and the third person singular can be "he", "she", or "it". However, in some passages, such as John 16:14, the masculine pronoun "ekeinos" (that one) is used in reference to the Holy Spirit.
With my understanding of the Holy Spirit, I have no problems calling the Spirit "He". If I could extend my spirit (or personality) into your house and talk to you, you would call that extension by my name, and would say he said this or that to me. Jesus and/or His Father extend their Spirit (or personality) into our hearts or minds, and speak to us. Why should the One who speaks not be addressed as "He"?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald

_Ely
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: UK

Post by _Ely » Wed May 16, 2007 3:25 am

Quick question or those who believe the breath (ruach, pneuma) of God is the "third person of the Godhead." All the Trinitarians here would agree that God is omniscient, He knows all things past, present and future? Okay, in light of this fact, consider:

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven [not the son - Alexandrian variant], but My Father only. Matthew 24:36

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Mark 13:32

Jesus was here speaking of his parousia. Some of you believe he was talking about something that happened in AD70. Fine. , either way, why did Jesus indicate that only the Father knew of that day or hour without mentioning the "third person of the Trinity"? Did this member of the Godhead also "divest himself of" or "choose not to access/use" his omniscience as Jesus allegedly had?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
"Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Christ Jesus" Titus 2:13
www.lasttrumpet.com
www.pfrs.org

__id_1364
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Post by __id_1364 » Wed May 16, 2007 6:58 am

[quote]What is your opinion, is the Holy Spirit a person?[/quote

Jesus was the only one who became a person--we saw God in our flesh, through our fleshy eyes, and thats it.

God was never before seen in this way. He is not flesh... his Spirit is Spirit.
His Spirit hovered over the waters in creative acts of good things.

To be honest I personally usually think of God as the father. Dad.
Then when Jesus came along i saw him in my flesh, as Jesus is no different in appearance to the father--you have seen me , you have seen the father.

What this all means is that the Spirit of who he is, the force of his love, his outworkings, are wrought by his Spirit.( the Spirit of him) We see and feel the wonder of his nature, we see his acts of kindness, the kind of person he is, and we should want to be like him
. To do so would be an act of recieving his Spirit and faith to be like him, because he created us in his Image.

Maybe we should think of it as recieving the father, who demonstrated himself on our earthly level through the person Jesus Christ, and its him we recieve in aknowledgement of Jesus demonstrating the Spirit that came from the father
We are promised that if we believe in this relationship between the father and Jesus, that they are one, you will recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit...how could you not?

Am I making any sense? feel like deleting as im not confident...


If one didnt believe in Jesus, that he wasnt God in the flesh, there is no way he could recieve the Spirit of God in him...Cause Jesus was it....

Hope i am not crazy....
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:

User avatar
_TK
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:10 pm
Location: Northeast Ohio

Post by _TK » Wed May 16, 2007 7:04 am

Romans 8:26-27: Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

For those who think the HS is not a "person," please provide your explanation of these verses; particularly v. 27 which seems to deal with the Father, Son and HS as separate persons.

TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)

User avatar
_Paidion
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Chapple, Ontario

Post by _Paidion » Wed May 16, 2007 4:48 pm

Quick question or those who believe the breath (ruach, pneuma) of God is the "third person of the Godhead." All the Trinitarians here would agree that God is omniscient, He knows all things past, present and future?
While Trinitarian Gregory Boyd agrees that God is omniscient, he does not agree that "He knows all things... future." He does not regard the future actions of people as knoweable, since the people involved have not yet chosen to do them; therefore there is nothing to know.

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven [not the son - Alexandrian variant], but My Father only. Matthew 24:36

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Mark 13:32


I think this indicates that if there is a "Third Person of the Trinity" that indeed He does not know when Jesus will return.

I suppose it could be argued that Jesus Himself did not know while He was a human being since He divested Himself of His divine qualities while on earth. Apparently He regained them after His resurrection.

But John 1:1 seems to indicate that Jesus was not omnicient even after His resurrection:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John...

If God revealed to Jesus what would soon take place, then Jesus must not have known it prior to that. But since the angel Jesus sent did not reveal it to John until after 90 A.D. (or "a short time before 70 A.D. if you're a preterist), it would seem that Jesus had already been resurrected when God revealed it to Him, and clearly Jesus was not omnicient when God revealed to Him these things.

Since I read your post, Ely, this got me thinking. What becomes of my affirmation that Jesus was begotten as Another exactly like the Father? ----- the exact expression of the Father's essence? If, unlike the Father, Jesus was not omnicient, how could be be Another exactly like the Father? I don't have an explanation of this seeming contradiction.

I realize that in Unitarian thought there is no contradiction and nothing to explain, but I am not yet ready to become a Unitarian. If I did, I think I would have many more contradictions to explain. I'll give just one example at this time I have transcripts of all New Testament manuscripts which were written prior to 300 A.D. Two of these manuscripts contain John 1:18. Both of these, Papyrus 66 (middle of 2nd century) and Papyrus 75 (late 2nd or early 3rd century) have the abbeviation THS (with a line drawn above it) which stands for THEOS. Thus John 1:18 should read:

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

So Jesus is "the only begotten God". As the early Christian writers used to say, "The Father is unbegotten."

Nevetheless, I am at a complete loss to explain why the only begotten God is not omnipotent.

Of course, one could reject the book of Revelation --- as most second-century Christians seem to have done, and maintain that Jesus did become omnicient again after He was raised from death.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald

User avatar
_Derek
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:27 am
Location: Marietta GA

Post by _Derek » Wed May 16, 2007 4:56 pm

Nevetheless, I am at a complete loss to explain why the only begotten God is not omnipotent.
I think the answer is here.

Phi 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Phi 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

While Jesus was here, He operated only as a man, and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think this is called the "kenosis" after the the Greek word translated "emptied" above.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Derek

Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7

Post Reply

Return to “Miscellaneous”