The Narrow Path Ministries

Luke 8:12
Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

What does God have in mind when it says so many times in the New Testament that we must believe to be saved? What is the purpose of believing? It seems to me that most churches essentially teach the following regarding this....

"It is essential to believe the right things, because it is God's requirement. There is no place in heaven for those who do not believe."

I do not think this is correct. Does God have a checklist? Isn't it more likely that the importance of believing has more to do with how one who believes will live his/her life? If so, then how would this affect our salvation? Is salvation only about a home in heaven, or isn't also about a fruitful, joyful life while we live?

Any thoughts?

Todd

if a person doesnt believe the facts about the gospel, how can the gospel change the person? i agree that there is more to belief than intellectual assent ("the demons believe and tremble") and that true belief (faith) results in change. i agree that salvation is "from our sins" and therefore a more abundant life on earh, but i also believe that we are saved from future judgment. i know that you disagree on that point, and i dont want to digress into that again.

but i do believe that a person has to "have belief" in God, and the gospel message, in order to be "saved." Jesus and the apostles were quite clear about that. without faith, we can't even please God (from Hebrews somewhere). where does that leave the heathen in the deepest remotest jungles? in God's hands, right where they should be.

TK

As I see it, salvation is not based on the number of proper doctrines that are rightly believed, any more than it is based on the number of proper meritorious acts that are rightly performed. Both ideas come from the common, carnal assumption that salvation is a commodity which God is obliged to surrender to those who jump through the proper hoops (whether in action or in thought).

This attitude arises from seeing salvation as merely a future reward to be collected on some eschatological, cosmic "payday," by those who have met the necessary conditions, and it always leads to a minimalist attitude, like that which a day-laborer has toward his minimum-wage job. He shows up not a minute earlier than his shift is scheduled to begin, does only as much work as is required to earn his paycheck, and leaves the moment his shift is over. He has a contractual relationship with his employer, and meets his obligations as minimally as he thinks he can get away with. He is not working out of love, but just fulfilling the basic requirements for the reward at the end of the week.

Whenever you hear someone ask the question, "How much can I [do such-and-such a disobedient thing] and still be saved?"-- or (as a recent caller asked on my program) "If I wrongfully divorce my wife and marry someone else, will I necessarily go to hell?"-- you know you have encountered a person who has this minimalist, contractual attitude toward salvation. The same is true when someone asks, "If I don't believe in so-and-so, will I go to hell?"

By contrast, I understand salvation to be nothing less than a loving relationship with God. This is not what salvation requires, it is what salvation is.

Loving relationships are continuously, fondly interactive, not contractual. Salvation is not some thing that God is bartering with man over, in exchange for which He is willing to take so-many good deeds, or so-much payment, or so-many proper belief confessions, or so-many anything else.

Love does not think to ask questions like, "How little obedience [or belief, or sacrifice] can I get away with and still keep the prize called 'salvation' [a word which is usually interpreted to mean exemption from hell fire]?"

A person in a loving relationship with God is not looking for ways to short-change God as much as possible and still come out the winner. Love says, "Is there any way I can accommodate Your desires more fully and make You happier?"--and does not imagine that any reward is deserved, or even necessarily desired, for such devotion. Making the beloved happy is the lover's chief joy.

So where does "believing" or "faith" come in? I guess one could equally ask, "What role does faith [confidence in another person] play in my marriage, or my relationship with my friends, my children, my business partner, etc.?"

"Faith" is that of which a relationship consists. The person that you do not trust will not be someone with whom you will maintain an intimate relationship. If a man can't trust a woman, he won't marry her. If you can't trust the person you already married, you will not have a loving relationship with him/her. With someone you do not trust, you may maintain a contractual relationship, merely, but it will not be intimate, nor mutually loving. You will always be watching your back, wondering how that person may be betraying you when not under your watchful eye, and setting up protective systems in the relationship to prevent your being cheated, etc.

In other words, your relationship with that person will be just like that which most religious people have with God. They neither love nor trust Him, but they want to maintain a minimalist contractual relationship with Him for something called "salvation." Why they would want salvation is difficult to imagine, since it means spending eternity with a Person that they are not much attracted to, and whose motives they always view as suspect. To them, hell must seem even more unattractive than heaven.

There are basic Christian truths to be believed, e.g., that God exists and deserves to be loved and obeyed; that He is good and that He loves His creation; that He is on the side of lost mankind more than any parent is on the side of his/her own children, and wants to rescue them all from their destructive and self-destructive addiction to sin; that His plan for those who know Him is clean, lovely, and in all ways beneficial to them; that He may need to hurt us in order to cure us of our chronic sinfulness, but He intends thereby only to effect a desirable improvement for our good; that Jesus, through His atoning death, is God's provision of reconciliation between Himself and mankind; that Jesus arose from the dead, is the Lord of all the universe, and calls us to lay down our arms, abandon our chains, and to enter His kingdom as soldiers in the battle for the souls of others; etc. Believing these things is what makes it possible to surrender with full abandon to His sovereignty--the only terms by which we can be in relationship (read, "salvation") with Him.

Faith is not so much the begrudged acquiescence to a set of propositions presented to the mind, as it is the settled mindset of confidence in a Person, who presents Himself to our hearts.

Thus believing certain doctrines is not really a price or a condition that God sets--a high bar for us to make it over--in order to qualify for a prize. As in a marriage, a friendship or a business partnership, faith (confidence in the character and competence of another person) is simply what makes any association a relationship, and such a relationship with God is all that salvation is.

TK wrote:i agree that salvation is "from our sins" and therefore a more abundant life on earth, but i also believe that we are saved from future judgment. i know that you disagree on that point, and i dont want to digress into that again.

Actually, TK, we are pretty close on this. I think our only difference is what the "future judgment" may entail and when it will take place with respect to the physical resurrection. But, with regard to the "abundant life on earth," I agree totally. This is one reason I made this post. I am now understanding many of the "salvation" verses to be talking about having an abundant, fruitful, joyful life in Christ rather than life after death.

Todd

Steve,

Thanks for your very thoughtful response to my question. I agree with what you have said.

I am reading a book in which the author says that he was talking with a woman who said that she was more interested in Buddism than Christianity because (as she put it) "Buddism is more about a way of life, but Christianity is only about believing." To me, this is the problem with how Christianity is being presented in most churches today. As you have said so well, Christianity is about a loving relationship with God and how that impacts our relationships with others. It is a way of life.

Todd

It seems that many Chrisitians are interested in knowing "what they can get away with" and still be "saved" because they realize that they may fail, even with the best of intentions. using the marriage example, i may trust my wife and believe in her and love her dearly, but occasionally i am not a perfect husband-- i may be snippier than i need to be or selfish on occasion. this doesnt mean i am not committed to the marriage, but rather an indication that i am not perfect all of the time.

a person may be committed to following Christ, but still stumble from time to time. i agree with steve that stumbling should be at a minimum if we truly love Christ. but some people stumble anyways, and that is why there is a mindset of concern over believing certain things vs. a dynamic relationship.

TK

I think a lot of people imagine believing in God is similar to believing in ghosts. As I have studied the topic of faith, believing, and trust in God (terms used interchangeably in some scriptures) I have come to the following definition for faith:

Faith is being sure that someone (or something) will do what they promise.

In the case of your spouse, faith in them means you believe they will keep the vows they made on your wedding day. Them being “unfaithful” to you means they have broken those vows.

If I say I have faith in the chair on which I am sitting, I mean that I believe it will hold me up when I put my weight on it, which is what it “promises” to do. I could say the same thing about the bridge I have to drive over on a regular basis. I trust it to hold my car and I up as I drive over it.

Many promises result in action when they are believed. For example, if I need to go downtown I have the option to drive over the bridge I mentioned above or drive about 20 miles out of my way to avoid doing so. If I say I trust (have faith in) the bridge, but I choose to drive the 20 miles out of my way to avoid driving over it, my actions deny my words (unless I like taking the scenic route, of course). So also, the promises of God often result in action in some circumstances. For example, God has told us that He will give us His Spirit to enable us to live a holy life. If I take this as fact and claim I desire to live a holy life (I am repentant toward sin), but I attempt to attain righteousness in my own strength rather than by trusting God to give me the Spirit, I have shown by my action that I don’t trust God to live up to His word. This is only one example. Take any promise of God, and see if there isn’t some impact to the way we live. I am still in the process of doing this exercise. Hebrews 11 is a great place to start. See how the promises of God are linked to the action for those to whom the promises were given.

Interestingly, I have found that many people who “lose their faith” in God do so because they feel that He has broken some promise to them in some way. They thought God promised to make them rich if they followed Him. They didn’t get rich, so the lost faith in His ability to keep His “promises”. They thought God promised an easy life to His followers, and they fell away when persecution/trial came. God is faithful to keep His promises, but we need to make sure we know what He has promised.

Did I end up getting off topic? I hope not.

I welcome any feedback on this, as it is still a work in progress.

mad wrote:Did I end up getting off topic? I hope not.

I welcome any feedback on this, as it is still a work in progress.

mad,

This is very much on topic. You are saying that if we truly have faith in God our actions will be changed as a result, because we trust Him to keep His promises. But let's tie this in to the original question. What is the purpose? Do our changed actions result in securing a home in heaven?....or do they impact our life in a spiritually positive way?

Todd

FoF writes:

But let's tie this in to the original question. What is the purpose? Do our changed actions result in securing a home in heaven?....or do they impact our life in a spiritually positive way?

I don’t think we secure a home in heaven by our actions, but our actions are evidence that we have a home secured there. Interestingly, Paul lays this out for us in 2 Cor. 4:7-5:10. I will give my interpretation of this passage. Paul says that often, when he preaches, bad things happen to his body, to such a degree that his body should have been crushed like a fragile jar of clay. He says in vv 13-14:

13 It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

We see here the reason for Paul’s willingness to put his body in harm’s way. He trusts God when He promises to give him a new body if his earthly one is destroyed. This interpretation is confirmed in Ch. 5.

1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.
7 We live by faith, not by sight.

My version of v 7 is "We live by faith (in God's promise for a new body), not by what we see (our dying, abused, earthly bodies), and that is why we keep preaching the gospel."

Note the basis for Paul’s faith in v. 5. The Spirit is a guarantee of the future new body. Faith isn’t “blind” or without basis. Faith also isn’t static, but it grows as we see God keep his promises in our own and other’s lives, just like our faith in our spouse grows as we witness them live up to their vows (assuming they are faithful). I think this is why the poor are often rich in faith (Jms. 2:5). They see God keeping His promises by providing on a day to day basis.

Do our actions impact our lives in a “spiritually positive way”? I think they do in that they are evidence of our faith in God and they cause our faith in Him to grow. Every time I “test” the bridge I mentioned in the earlier post by driving over it, my faith in it grows (assuming it doesn’t break). Similarly, every time we have opportunity to test God’s faithfulness (i.e. we take a promise of God and act on it) our faith grows when we find Him faithful.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

God bless.

Borrowing from Steve's post:

As I see it, salvation is not based on the number of proper doctrines that are rightly believed, any more than it is based on the number of proper meritorious acts that are rightly performed. Both ideas come from the common, carnal assumption that salvation is a commodity which God is obliged to surrender to those who jump through the proper hoops (whether in action or in thought).

In the "thought" category, so to speak, I don't believe some doctrines that most Evangelicals believe are necessary-for-salvation (and no need mention them here). Be that as it may; I can fully concur with Steve's summary of what he feels are essential Christian beliefs. On beliefs where I differ...often, I'm finding it best to leave things go unsaid.

"Salvation as a commodity" has been something I've been overcoming, making deliberate and concerted efforts to "renew your mind" (Ro 12:2). I was raised in a church that really believes in a commodity-like salvation. I've heard people from this church talk a lot about "getting my rewards" as if , well, they seem to be really looking forward to this! (I could never follow such reasoning...will not the Presence of God Almighty and of His Christ be good enuf? I don't care one bit how many crowns I get)....Just give me: Jesus!

"Commodity thinking" seems most prevalent among Arminians and Southern Baptists in my experience. It seems to go along with Dispensationalism somehow....
Good thread.
Rick