Jesus in hell

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Jesus in hell

Post by _Anonymous » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:34 am

Dearest Brother:

I pray you continue to exhibit the character of Christ through your life.

We are currently studying the Heidelberg Catechism and are on Lord's Day 16. Question 44 raises the issue of our Lord "descending into hell". Where may I get information relating to this issue? Do you have any tape that discusses it?

Benjamin, Watsonville, CA
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Post by _Steve » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:36 am

Dear Benjamin,

The statement that Jesus “descended into hell," is a little misleading. The closest we can come to such a statement in Scripture is that found in Psalm 16:10 (quoted by Peter in Acts 2), where the Messiah, speaking of His own resurrection, says, "You will not leave my soul in Sheol [Gr. hades]." In the King James Version, this was traditionally translated, "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell," thus giving the impression that, prior to His resurrection, Jesus was in "hell."

The problem with this is that Christians have traditionally associated the word "hell" with the place of the damned, i.e., a place of eternal torment. This image is drawn from passages like Mark 9:43-48, where Jesus speaks of fire that is not quenched (and immortal worms), and from Rev.14:11, where the fate of those who take "the mark of the beast" is that the "smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night." However, these passages do not mention "sheol" or "hades" (the two words being equivalent in Hebrew and Greek, respectively). The immortal worms are said to inhabit "gehenna" and the eternal smoke is located in "the lake of fire." There is no passage of Scripture equating these places with "hades." In fact, hades is distinguished from the lake of fire (and hence, probably, from gehenna) in Rev.20:14, wher "death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire."

Our ideas of eternal torment (related to our traditional use of the word "hell") are associated with gehenna and the lake of fire...not with hades. Thus it seems inappropriate to translate hades as "hell", as the KJV regularly does. What, then, is hades? Its biblical usage renders it almost untranslatable into a single English word. Many scholars, recognizing that the word sometimes merely seems to refer to the grave (e.g., Gen.37:35), and other times to a conscious condition of the dead, both good and bad (e.g. Luke 16:23/Ps.16:10), have said that the word simply refers to "the undifferentiated place of the dead." You will notice that the New King James (and most modern translations) leave the words sheol and hades untranslated, in order to avoid guessing wrongly at their meaning. The statement that Jesus' soul was not left in "hades" might mean nothing more than that He did not remain dead. It seems clear that Jesus did not descend into "the flames of hell," as some people have mistakenly assumed, since we have His own statement that He would be (along with the repentant thief) in "Paradise" as soon as He was dead (Luke 23:43).

A couple of other Scriptures are sometimes appealed to as evidence that Jesus went to hell. One is Ephesians 4:9, which says that Christ's ascension was subsequent to His first descending to "the lower parts of the earth." However, there is no obvious reason why Paul should refer to hell as "the lower parts of the earth" (simply using the word hell would have been less confusing, if this is what he intended to convey) and the expression may simply mean that, in contrast to Christ's now being exalted to "the highest heaven," He was previously reduced (during His incarnation) to "the lowest earth" (possibly referring even to being of the lowliest caste of society). Alternately, in Psalm 139:15, we find David speaking of his own mother’s womb as “the lowest parts of the earth.” We simply cannot be certain about the exact meaning of this expression in Ephesians 4:9.

The other passage thought to be relevant is 1 Peter 3:19-20. Here, Christ is said to have preached to "spirits in prison" through the Spirit. The meaning of this passage has been much disputed, but the idea that it describes Jesus preaching in hell between the time of His burial and resurrection is far from the only option, and does not seem to be the most likely one. For example, why are the "spirits in prison" limited to those who were disobedient in the days of Noah before the flood? If Jesus went to hell to preach, why would he not have preached to everyone there, including those who hasd died after Noah's day? I do not have the answer, but I point out that there is great mystery associated with this text. It hardly provides solid evidence for any theory that cannot be drawn from other, clearer passages of Scripture.

In conclusion, the doctrine that Jesus descended into "hell" rests upon three data of Scripture, all of them nebulous: 1) Psalm 16/Acts 2 mentions sheol/hades, but there is no reason to associate these terms with our English conception of "hell;" Ephesians 4:9 speaks of the "lower parts of the earth," which is equally ambiguous; and 1 Peter 3:19-20 speaks of preaching to "spirits in prison," without identifying either the location of this "prison," the identity of the spirits there, or the time frame of the preaching. Thus, the statement found in several creeds that indicate that Jesus went to "hell" would best be omitted or reworded to reflect more biblical terminology.
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In Jesus,
Steve

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Jesus in Paradise

Post by _Anonymous » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:09 am

From my own personal studies and a book called "Dispensational Truths" by Clarence Larkin, my own question on this subject was answered. Jesus did decend into the "heart off the earth" during the time that his bodywas in the tomb. But not into hell, but to Paradise. Before Christ came and died the righteous souls who fell asleep could not go to heaven yet there was, and still is, a place in the heart of the earth called Paradise (aka Abrahams Bosom) with a "great gulf" separating it from Hell. Read the story in Luke 16:24 about Lazarus. Jesus decended to Paradise with the penitent theif to rescue all the righteous souls and take them up to heaven. Paradise is now empty.
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Post by _Steve » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:22 pm

Gail,
Even though I am indisagreement with much of Clarence Larkin's "Dispensational Truth," his view on this topic (which you have shared here) is precisely like my own. I would only caution that we must keep in mind that this construction of the facts is based upon no clear biblical explanation, but is an inference (like the doctrine of the Trinity) from scattered texts—but there are much fewer texts supporting this scenario than there are supporting the Trinity. Nonetheless, I think it is a fair inference from the available data.
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Post by _eppsjason » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:14 pm

Psalms 16:10 are words from David, not the Messiah. The saints of old didn't go to hell, but they didn't go to heaven either. There was no death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus during their time. Therefore, there was no blood of Jesus to wash away their sins. At no time has sin entered heaven. Read Revelations 21:27 "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." So there was no one in heaven before the ascending of Jesus, read John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

On the other topic, Jesus did go to where the saints of old were which was the outsides of hell. Some refer to it as paradise, others refer to it as hades. Jesus didn't rise from the dead until the third day because his mission was to save the saints of old from that place, read
Matthew 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Also, read Ephesians 4:8-10 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

May you be a hearer and doer of The Word.
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Post by _Anonymous » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:51 am

I think, perhaps, the idea may be found more developed in other non-canonical literature. The following is the 22nd Ode of Solomon (Charlesworth). Although it isn't really an example of a "clearer" idea of the messiah going into hell and freeing those bound there, I think one could (in my opinion wrongly) interpret it to mean that as much as the canonical verses.

1. He who caused me to descend from on high, and to ascend from the regions below;
2. And He who gathers what is in the Middle, and throws them to me;
3. He who scattered my enemies, and my adversaries;
4. He who gave me authority over bonds, so that I might unbind them;
5. He who overthrew by my hands the dragon with seven heads, and set me at his roots that I might destroy his seed;
6. You were there and helped me, and in every place Your name surrounded me.
7. Your right hand destroyed his evil venom, and Your hand leveled the Way for those who believe in You.
8. And It chose them from the graves, and separated them from the dead ones.
9. It took dead bones and covered them with flesh.
10. But they were motionless, so It gave them energy for life.
11. Incorruptible was Your way and Your face; You have brought Your world to corruption, that everything might be resolved and renewed.
12. And the foundation of everything is Your rock. And upon it You have built Your kingdom, and it became the dwelling-place of the holy ones.
Hallelujah.

--slaveofOne
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Messiah descended into Sheol

Post by _Priestly1 » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:35 pm

It has been an ancient Biblical and Church doctrine that Messiah died and was entombed for three days and three nights. His body was not left in the Grave (Sheol), nor was His spirit left in Sheol's Paradise (i.e. Abraham's Bosom/Paul's 3rd Heaven/John's Soul's under the Heavenly Alter), which is separated from Sheol's Hell by a river chasm. But for three days He did proclaim his victory to the righteous souls in Paradise, and as Paul taught He proclaimed their liberation when He ascended to Heaven after the Resurrection. As a matter of fact at the hour of His death many of Jerusalem's righteous dead rose up and walked the streets...so the Gospel teaches.
Now many suppose that Sheol's Paradise and Hell are mythological, but Second Temple Judaism taught this as did Messiah Himself....so does the Church to this day. Many believe when you die you float up to God's Throne, get judged and float to a bodiless celestial bliss or fall down into a fiery Hell. This is Medieval Myth...not JudeoChristian Doctrine. Until the First Resurrection the righteous dead in Messiah rest in Sheol's Paradise to await immortal glorification at the Resurrection to Life. Likewise, until the final condemnation of the Second Resurrection and Death, the wicked dead are incarcerated with the fallen angels (members of the BeniElohim/Sons of God) in Sheol's Hellish Pit. Messiah now resides in the Highest Heaven before God representing all the Faithful living on Earth and in Paradise, just as the Apostles all taught. The Angels attend to the righteous in Paradise, which is the 3rd of 7 Heavens. Most modern Protestant Christians have no idea of the cosmology of the Jewish Bible both Old and New Covenant...nor do they realize just how much they have lost in their attempt at reforming the Western Church. They simply read the Apostle's Creed and were it says Christ descended into Hell/Sheol and they either dismiss it altogether or misconstrue it into a heretical belief system.
Moderns of a heretical type teach Messiah became a sin infected demoniac on the cross and was consigned to Sheol's Hell for torture by Satan and his demonic legions. After three days He lay waste this Hell and overcame Satan, Sin and Death in this manner...becoming the first "born again" Son of God, of which many more would soon follow. This notion is unbiblical and shows how low many moderns have fallen in their Biblical illiteracy and ignorance of Church Doctrine and Cosmology. This is what many confuse for the Historic and Biblical doctrine of Messiah's entombment and entrance into Sheol/Paradise were he preached to the souls therein.
If we go straight to the Highest Heavens at death or descend into the lowest Hell fire, what reason do we have for the Resurrections? The Bible never teaches that we go to God's Presence (7th Heaven) at our death, but that we receive a judgment that sends us either to Paradise to rest from our works until the Resurrection to Life or to Hell to await our Resurrection to Condemnation and the second death in the fiery Lake of Gehinnom. Like Paul says, if there is no Resurrection of Messiah or of the Dead then we are the most deluded and miserable of men.

It is stated that the Earthly Temple was designed on the Celestial Model that was revealed to Moses, hence it represented all that is seen and unseen in Creation. Thus the earthly Temple was itself a Microcosm of the Macrocosm of the Heavenly Temple...a teaching tool that revealed the true nature of the Universe and the way in which God would save us in it.

This is the Judaic Cosmology held in the time of the Prophets and Messiah. There are 4 Worlds which comprise 7 Heavenly realms of Creation, and this is what the Nicean Creed means by "We believe in God the All Sovereign Father, Creator of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen;" The 4 Worlds correspond to the 4 partitions of the Holy Temple. Thus we see the created Universe as a united multiverse, in which all 7 realms of the 4 worlds all co-exist together under the Sovereignty of God. This Universe is full of God's glory and is replete with life and beauty, both visible and invisible.
Modern Scientists and Cosmologists now understand that the Universe is made up of 1/4 Visible Matter and 3/4 Dark (Invisible) Matter, which corresponds well to the Hebrew Cosmology. And therefore it would be a multidimensional universe comprised of many worlds, some in the visible spectrum of dense matter and many more in the invisible spectrum of dark matter. It seems the saying is true: One day scientists will come to the place where prophets, sages and saints have long dwelt.

The 4th World of Assiah: Outer Temple Courts (Visible World)
1st Heaven: Court of Nations (Man/Anthropoi) The Earth
------------------------------------Beautiful Gate--------------------------------
2nd Heaven: Court of Women (Angels/Angeloi) The Cosmos
___________________________Great Gate________________________
The 3rd World of Yetzirah: Inner Temple Courts (Invisible World)
3rd Heaven:Lower Court of Men (Powers/Dynameis) Paradise/Sheol
--------------------------------------Balistrade-----------------------------------
4th Heaven:Upper Court of Priests-the Altar (Rulers/Exousai)
____________________________Archway_________________________
The 2nd World of Beriah: Inner Temple Precincts (Invisible World)
5th Heaven:Ulam/Vestibule-Two Pillars (Principalities/Archai)
--------------------------------------Veil & Doors--------------------------------
6th Heaven:Hekhal/Sanctuary (Dominions/Kyriotetes) Heavenly Council
____________________________Double Veils______________________
The 1st World of Atzilut: Temple Inner Sanctum (Invisible World)
7th Heaven:Devir/Holy of Holies (Thrones/Thronoi) Throne Room
____________________________________________________________

Here is the Temple Model of the Universe as alluded to in the Scriptures and Ancient JudeoChristian Tradition. I know that this may very well be unknown and strange to many, if not all Western Protestants and many lay Roman Catholics of Secularized Europe and the Americas.....but it was once the Cosmology and understanding of the Universal Church and Jewry world wide...we both share a common spiritual heritage.

I hope this aids you. I used Paul's list of Celestial beings (Thrones: 1. Serafim, 2. Cherubim, 3. Ofanim-Galgallim and the 4. Irin-Beni Elohim. Dominions: 5.Chashmalli-Zakhenim. Principalities:6. Sarim-Ikharim. Rulers:7. Melakim-Tarshishim. Powers:8. Shinnanim-Koachim. Angels: 9. Ishim-Malaki haSharet), which are what the Church, both Eastern and Western call the 9 Choirs or Ranks of Angels mentioned in Scripture, Church writings and in Jewish Tradition.

Merry Christ-Mass and Happy New Year!

+Ken Huffman
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