Halloween Ideas

[Guest]

Well said, Jim.

I am sure that some people take "innocently" take their kids out "trick-or-treating", thinking it's just a fun time. But they are training their children to ask people to give them stuff. Would it not be better to train them that it is better to give than to receive?

What is worse. While these parents and children are carrying out their "innocent trick-or-treating", thousands of witches (wiccans) are offering cats and other animals (some say even humans) in pagan sacrifice. Shouldn't disciples of Christ make every effort to disassociate themselves with pagan religion by refusing to recognize this unholiday (unholy day) in any way?

I actuall don't see anything innocent about halloween. One thing I see it teachs, even if not intended, is that evil is fun and enjoyable. It is a very self centered day about getting something and if you don't get what you want you play a trick. Words have power and meaning, said enough to yourself or others numbs people to evil. halloween isn't an innocent little holiday.

I've known wiccans, never heard of any human or animal sacrafices but everyone one of them were very immoral.

[Guest]

I'm curious what folks think about Christmas -- the same could be said about materialism and pagan themes, etc. They're fair points, just like Halloween, but there's a point where it leads to separatism. Proper emphasis and instruction and reminding kids about real reason for the celebration, and emphasizing gifts to others is one thing -- shutting ones self in and refusing to participate is another. I'm curious if any of you have Christmas trees in your home or holly or such things. I'm not that well educated on the pagan references in our modern Christmas celebrations, but I understand there are many.

I quote the below from a cite on Wicca.

Many mainstream Christmas traditions stem from original Pagan practices. Though Christian origins and associations have been attributed to many of these traditions, they do in fact pre-date Christianity.
Yule Log - A special log was chosen on the eve of Yule, for the holiday fire. A small piece from last year's log is used to light the fire. The lighting of the fire was a festive family event, to hurry the return of the sun. Charred pieces from the fire would be kept to protect the house through the coming year. The woods most often sought for the Yule log were birch, oak willow or holly. Today, the Yule log is sometimes represented as a log cake instead. Or a small log is decorated with candles. The burning of the Yule log is a well-known tradition, but it's not often done outside of the Pagan community anymore.

Kissing Under Mistletoe - The roots of this habit are unknown, but is likely tied with the fertility aspects of mistletoe and that it was viewed as a bringer of peace by the Druids.

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Mistletoe was also a powerful healing herb. Mistletoe and kissing are also seen in one of the Norse myths: Frigga is the Norse Goddess of love, marriage and fertility. Her son, Balder was slain by Loki with an arrrow made from mistletoe. When Balder was restored to life, Frigga blessed the mistletoe and gave a kiss to anyone who passed under it. Some later versions of this tradition say to remove one berry with each kiss. When there are no more berries on the sprig of mistletoe, no more kisses.
Tree Decorating - There is some debate on the origin of this tradition. Druids (and some other ancient cultures) saw evergreen trees as symbols of everlasting life, because they seemed to live through the winter undaunted by the cold. So using evergreen branches as decorations symbolized the undying strength of the Sun. Decorating the trees may have come from the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia (see below for more on Saturnlia).

Gift Giving - The Christians attribute the giving of gifts at Christmas to the wise men who brough gold, frankincense and myrrh to the newborn Jesus. But this tradition was common well before the time of Jesus, during Saturnalia.

The Ancient Roman Festival of Saturnalia
Saturnalia is one of the best known ancient celebrations of the Winter Solstice. The name comes from the Roman God Saturn, who ruled over agriculture. He was the main God honoured at this time, after the fall crops had been sown. Saturnalia lasted for several days (typically 7, but various officials changed the length of the festival on a few occassions). Saturnlia was the greatest festival of the Roman year, and was marked with great feasting, gift-giving, dancing, playing, and relaxing. Homes were decorated, work was suspended, and there was general merry-making done by all.

[Guest]

Reverse trick or treating

Historically, we’ve always felt that as Christians, we shouldn’t participate in Halloween in any way. Most people in our former fellowship were adamantly opposed to it. In the past, we usually would either go to a church alternative, or turn off all our lights and retreat to some room in the back of the house for a quiet evening.

Last night however, I felt really convicted when I came home from work, shut my garage door and turned out the lights while there were kids trick or treating just one house away. I felt like I was turning my back on them.

As I sat there for a moment, I asked the Lord “What do you want me to do?”. And I felt like he was saying to me “Did I ever ask you to completely avoid others on this night?”.

So I went and told my wife that I’d rather not be hostages in our own house and that we should go ahead and turn on the porch lights and let them come. Her first response was that we didn’t have anything to hand out. When I mentioned that our own kids have an abundance of candy in their own stock from previous birthdays and holidays, we both quickly discounted it as a bad idea to take that from our kids and give it to others’. However, my five year old (who was busy peeking out the window at all the other kids), overheard me and became excited at the idea of giving other kids his candy. Although we were shocked (he treasures his candy), we decided to let him hand it out.

As kids came to our door (some of them teenagers with deeper voices than mine), they were greeted by my two kids (ages 2 and 5) eagerly serving them “treats” and having fun doing it. Some of the kids had puzzled looks on their faces and some of them were clearly touched by it (I could tell by the adoring “ohs”).

There was a concern about whether we had enough or not, but I told my son that if God wants us to give out candy, He’ll provide enough. Not only did we have enough before the night was over, but our neighbor across the street came over with her bowl of candy to give some to our kids. I thought it was an awesome lesson to them of God’s provision in a language they could understand (candy)!

I’ve never seen him so excited to serve others and give away his own things before. It was a great opportunity to talk about kindness as a fruit of the Spirit and the joy of giving that God puts in our heart. I probably didn’t even need to explain it…he was experiencing it!

The lesson for me was that God is big enough to reveal Himself even on a day that doesn’t bring glory to His name. It’s amazing how much easier it is to hear His still small voice when there’s not the constant mooing of sacred cows in my head.

[Guest]

thanks, christopher, for sharing this.

i have read all the posts here, both pro and con, and still am not entirely sure on which position to take.

would Jesus have told young children to "get lost, you are celebrating a pagan holiday," or would he love them? children trick or treating arent being "taught" to take things for nothing or else they can perform a nasty trick. this is because people are willingly handing out the candy. in fact many people are disappointed if few children show up at their door. they LIKE to give out the candy. and no young children understand the roots of halloween. its just a fun day to them, ingrained by culture and by shows like "its the great pumpkin charlie brown."

that being said, paidion's and Jim's points are well-taken. this is one of those issues that is not clear cut, at least not to me.

TK

[Guest]

Jim:

I actuall don't see anything innocent about halloween.

You may have misunderstood me, Jim. Please notice that I put "innocently" in quotation marks in my post. I did this to indicate that many of those who take their children out to get treats think that they are engaged in innocent activity. If, I, myself, thought the activity were innocent, I would not have used quotation marks.

darin-houston:

I'm curious what folks think about Christmas

Christmas is a holiday of many rich origins, most of them pagan. Probably Saturnalia, which was held around Dec 25, during which gifts of gold and small images were exchanged, was the main source.

I have read that in 354 A.D. Bishop Liberius, who was alarmed at the "wild goings on" in the "Holy Roman Empire" was instrumental in changing the celebration from honouring the god Saturn, to honour the birth of Christ. Prior to that date, the birth of Christ was not widely celebrated, and before the year 200 A.D. was not celebrated at all.

So the "wild goings on" continued, but now they were in honour of a different god.

As for me personally, I enjoy the lights, Xmas trees, gift giving, etc. I observe the season, not as a religious holiday, but as a secular festive holiday.

I think there is a great difference between a holiday that has its origins in paganism, and one which is currently celebrated in a pagan manner such as Hallowe'en.

[Guest]

...
As I sat there for a moment, I asked the Lord “What do you want me to do?”. And I felt like he was saying to me “Did I ever ask you to completely avoid others on this night?”.

...

The lesson for me was that God is big enough to reveal Himself even on a day that doesn’t bring glory to His name. It’s amazing how much easier it is to hear His still small voice when there’s not the constant mooing of sacred cows in my head.

Awesome story!

With all the discussion of "pagan origins", demonic practices and potential worldliness, I think we may be missing the point.

Perhaps we don't have to find a "doctrinal position" on Halloween as much as to ask the Lord what He wants us to do and be led by the Holy Spirit.

Thanks Christopher.

[Guest]

As I sat there for a moment, I asked the Lord “What do you want me to do?”. And I felt like he was saying to me “Did I ever ask you to completely avoid others on this night?”.

Who am I to question what a person feels that God has spoken to him?
I want all to understand that what follows in no way negates what Christopher has said concerning God's leading him to give to the trick-or-treaters. For all I know, God may well have done so.

I would like to say that being led by the Spirit seems to be a subjective matter. Some say, "God spoke to my heart". Others get certain feelings or sensations which they interpret as the Lord speaking. I have been curious as to how people know that it is God, and not merely their own thoughts. Some of them are unsure themselves. Nevertheless, when God does speak, sometimes we "just know" and cannot objectively explain how we know.

Nevertheless, there are hundreds who claim that God told them to do something, whereas there are hundreds also who claim God told them to do the exact opposite. Some claim God has revealed a certain doctrine. Others claim He has revealed to them a contrary doctrine. Some "Christian fellowships" claim God has led them into group marriage, etc. etc.

The only way we can know what God really wants is to read and understand what Christ and the apostles taught. Some would say that this is a "legalistic" way of living instead of "living by the Spirit". But to my way of thinking, it is more certain.

So in my case, concerning the Hallowe'en controversy, I think I will continue to listen to the "mooing of the sacred cows."

[Guest]

What is worse. While these parents and children are carrying out their "innocent trick-or-treating", thousands of witches (wiccans) are offering cats and other animals (some say even humans) in pagan sacrifice. Shouldn't disciples of Christ make every effort to disassociate themselves with pagan religion by refusing to recognize this unholiday (unholy day) in any way?

Most witches and wiccans I know/have known offered some homebaked bread, wine or cake on Samhain/Halloween. I never ever heard of the offering of animals or humans within wiccan circles. I only heard of these things by nonwiccans.

Not that I mean that their practices are okay, ofcourse...

[Guest]

Hi Paidion,

You're right that it is a subjective matter, which is why I think it needs to remain personal. Each of us as His sheep, know His voice and follow Him (John 10), not the hireling. If we take our subjective revelations that God gives us individually and try to impose it corporately, I think the results can be (and often are) disastrous. You've illustrated some fine examples of that scenario.

Also, we can know it's not of God is it contradicts His will revealed in scripture.

However, I don't see anywhere in scripture a command to avoid people on Halloween as they take part in the traditional practices of it. On the other hand, I don't personally feel led to take part in it in the same manner as they do. But that's a matter of each man's conscience.

Who knows what God can do with the whole thing? Maybe some family took notice that there is another family with young kids in the neighborhood to get to know. It's possible that out of this there may even come opportunities to develop relationships with other families in our area and be a witness to them for Christ. I'll leave that in God's hands to open those doors. I just want to be available and sensitive to His leading in all situations.

My personal opinion is that last night was definitely of God. However, I would never prescribe that as the "right" approach that all Christians should take.

Lord bless.

[Guest]

Who am I to question what a person feels that God has spoken to him?
I want all to understand that what follows in no way negates what Christopher has said concerning God's leading him to give to the trick-or-treaters. For all I know, God may well have done so.

I would like to say that being led by the Spirit seems to be a subjective matter. Some say, "God spoke to my heart". Others get certain feelings or sensations which they interpret as the Lord speaking. I have been curious as to how people know that it is God, and not merely their own thoughts. Some of them are unsure themselves. Nevertheless, when God does speak, sometimes we "just know" and cannot objectively explain how we know.

Nevertheless, there are hundreds who claim that God told them to do something, whereas there are hundreds also who claim God told them to do the exact opposite. Some claim God has revealed a certain doctrine. Others claim He has revealed to them a contrary doctrine. Some "Christian fellowships" claim God has led them into group marriage, etc. etc.

The only way we can know what God really wants is to read and understand what Christ and the apostles taught. Some would say that this is a "legalistic" way of living instead of "living by the Spirit". But to my way of thinking, it is more certain.

So in my case, concerning the Hallowe'en controversy, I think I will continue to listen to the "mooing of the sacred cows."

I'm still looking for where the teachings of Christ and the apostles explicitly addressed what Halloween is and what the actions of Christians should be.

Outside of that, shouldn't we all be led by the Spirit to one degree or another?