Home schooling in trouble!

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_darin-houston
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Post by _darin-houston » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:39 pm

I would say the worst thing about public school isn't really the teaching, but more the exposure to rebellious kids.
I'm not sure I agree (at least for urban areas). Safety can be the number one problem in even "good" school districts these days. It's one thing to have your child face persecution or even ridicule for their Faith (though I don't agree that this is wise) -- it's quite another thing to face risk of life or health just by being there.

Also, though bad teaching is an issue, it's the indoctrination that is of more concern -- try as you might, the reality is that the school most often will have significantly more time and possibly even persuasion resources with our kids than we do at home in even the best of circumstances.

Fortunately, private school is an option for us (though not comfortably so), but that's no panacea, either.
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_Michelle
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Post by _Michelle » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:01 pm

Hi Michelle,

I'm making an assunption that if parents do not comply in becoming a certified educator or if they don't stop homeschooling their children then they may be prosecuted. I'm basing my assumption to what Justice Croskey said.
OK, perhaps I was wrong in my earlier post. I got my information from the HomeSchool Associaation website. Here's the link:
HomeSchool Association

An excerpt from the wealth of information available at that site:
Appellate Court Case, Please Remain Calm, By Debbie Schwarzer HSC legal team co-chair

I have been astonished about the hype about this case. So many have been making sensational claims that parents will be criminally prosecuted, etc.

Please rest assured about a number of things. First, the law, other than this court's interpretation, hasn't changed. Parents involved in a truancy prosecution might face criminal charges, but only after a rather lengthy series of hearings and court orders, and only if the parents failed to comply with the orders. It would be a criminal contempt charge, which isn't nothing but doesn't land you in Pelican Bay.

We have never known conscientious parents ever to be prosecuted under truancy laws to the point of contempt charges. It's highly unlikely.
A recent statement by the State Superintendent of Public Instruction:
3/11/08

SACRAMENTO - State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack
O'Connell announced today that the California Department of Education
has completed a legal review of the February 28 California Court of
Appeal ruling regarding home schooling. O'Connell issued the following
statement:

"I have reviewed this case, and I want to assure parents
that chose to home school that California Department of Education policy
will not change in any way as a result of this ruling. Parents still
have the right to home school in our state.

"Every child in our state has a legal right to get an education, and I
want every child to get an education that will prepare them for success
in college and the world of work in the challenging global economy.

"As the head of California's public school system, I hope that every
parent would want to send their children to public school. However,
traditional public schools may not be the best fit for every student.
Within the public school system there are a range of options available.
Students can take independent study classes, attend a charter school, or
participate in non-classroom-based programs. But some parents choose to
send their children to private schools or to home school, and I respect
that right.

"I admire the dedication of parents who commit to oversee their
children's education through home schooling. But, no matter what
educational program a student participates in, it is critical that the
program prepares them for future success in the global economy. I urge
any parent who is considering or involved in home schooling their
children to take advantage of resources and support available through
their county or district offices of education."
This is why I said what I said in an earlier post: "Parents who home school their children in California should stay informed and vigilant, but there really is no reason for fear."
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_Rae
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Post by _Rae » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:45 pm

I was looking around on Michael and Debi Pearl's website this evening and found the following article about homeschooling. I think it sums up why to homeschool pretty well...

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ho ... eschooled/
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"How is it that Christians today will pay $20 to hear the latest Christian concert, but Jesus can't draw a crowd?"

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__id_2622
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Post by __id_2622 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:27 pm

Quote:
I would say the worst thing about public school isn't really the teaching, but more the exposure to rebellious kids.

Darin wrote:

I'm not sure I agree (at least for urban areas). Safety can be the number one problem in even "good" school districts these days. It's one thing to have your child face persecution or even ridicule for their Faith (though I don't agree that this is wise) -- it's quite another thing to face risk of life or health just by being there.
Yeah, I agree with you. I had forgotten about that aspect. I probably tried to block it from my memory. :|

I guess I just think about being around kids that could be a bad influence first because that was my experience. I wish I had been saved from that temptation - But, I realize we are both Christian parents and we have different circumstances. Had my parents taught me right and wrong a don't think there would've been such a problem.
Fortunately, private school is an option for us (though not comfortably so), but that's no panacea, either.
I'm not sure I totally understand you. Do you mean you would rather homeschool if you could?

Zoe :)
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_darin-houston
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Post by _darin-houston » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:24 am

Quote:
Fortunately, private school is an option for us (though not comfortably so), but that's no panacea, either.


I'm not sure I totally understand you. Do you mean you would rather homeschool if you could?
Though it's not what I meant by the above, my preference would indeed be homeschool, but I'm not sure whether we could handle it time-wise. We will definitely supplement our children's education.

The above quote was intended to suggest that private school is likely a better choice than public school on average -- we would at least have more influence as paying clients (that's my impression, anyway) or at least we would have choice without moving into a very expensive neighborhood. That becomes a stewardship issue, for the most part.

Presently, my first child is not quite 3, and will definitely be in a private church school situation until grade school at least. So, we have some time to work this out.

For us in our situation, our child's education would almost certainly not suffer through homeschool. My wife and I both have broad experiences and are highly educated and we also have a strong support structure in our town for shared homeschooling and other extra-curricular opportunities as needed. So, it comes down to a stewardship question for us -- (both time and money). Also, our son's personality is an issue, too -- he is VERY much a people-person and thrives when in groups. Whether that proves true for learning or is instead a distraction when he enters school will have to be determined also.

The bottom line for us is that it is a complex issue we don't enter into lightly and there is no cookie cutter approach or dogmatic beliefs on either side. If we stumble into a great public school where teachers are free to "educate" instead of bureaucratize and respond to politices, we may well feel comfortable with it (for some grades, anyway). We aren't reflexive against public school, but don't make any assumptions to "trust" it , either.
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_Allyn
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Post by _Allyn » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:25 am

I'm not sure I fully understand why parents are afraid to send their children to public schools if the education they receive is good. I have known many families throughout the years who have home schooled and I find very little if any difference from those who were public schooled.

My question is then what is the root reason that someone on this forum wants to home school?
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_Rae
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Post by _Rae » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:12 am

Here are the reasons for us (in no particular order):

1) Why would I want to send my children to an institution that is becoming increasingly godless? I do not want to send my children away from me for 8 hours a day (or more) to learn in a setting that intentionally removes God from all learning. Yes, of course I would teach them about the Lord at home, but who's to say they wouldn't be more influenced by their teachers at school?

2) Homeschooling provides an opportunity for honing in on a child's particular skills. We have some good friends where we live who are choosing to homeschool for many reasons, one of which is that their child is going to be very talented in art (you can already tell at 5!) The public school system allows for maybe one day a week of art class, and the parents want to be able to give him the opportunity to really excel in this area.

3) Homeschooling allows for a child to be at different levels for different subjects. They might be 9 years old on a 4th grade reading level, but on a 7th grade math level. Or vise vera. This is only possible through homeschooling. We have friends who had 12 year olds in calculus. They didn't push it, they just let the kids go at their own pace.

4) "Prov 13:20 He who walks with wise men will be wise, But the companion of fools will suffer harm." We were visiting a fellowship here where we live and one of the pastors was teaching over the fool, the scoffer and the naive. He really honed in on this verse and talked about how we should not be a companion of fools -- and how most pre-teen and teenagers fall into this category. He sends his kids to public school, so I don't think he made the connection, but Ryan and I both thought the same thing... "Why would we send our kids to be companions of fools for the majority of the day every day?" I certainly was a companion of fools in High School, and it DEFINITELY affected me.

5) I think that one of the collapses in our society today is the collapse of the family unit. I believe that homeschooling provides an opportunity for the family unit to be strong and work together in a way that public schooling does not.

6) Providing that the parents do a good job in training their children in good sibling relationships, the siblings in homeschooled families tend to be closer to each other (from what I have seen).

7) I do not believe that the American way of educating children is the best way to do so. I want them to be able to have more hands-on learning and real life experiences than they would in public school.

8 ) I have had so many opportunities to answer the questions of my 5 year old daughter during the time that we are at home together. She (of course) has SOO many questions at this age and I hate to think of the kind of answers she would get from teachers who don't know the Lord or peers at school. Yes, there will be a time that she will have to be discerning with the information she receives from different sources, but not at 5!!!

This is from the article that I posted by Michael Pearl on homeschooling,
"Schooling will fill the brain with facts that will enable them to pass a test, but it will not teach them to relate to the world in which they live. When a child should be developing confidence, creativity, individuality, a strong body and a work ethic, he is instead made to cease independent decision making and march (or rather sit) in formation to the drum beat of another. He is reared to take a prepared position as a member of a society, marching in disobedience to its Maker."
One more quote....
" 1. The values expressed in the educational system are not the values and goals that spring from genuine love of their fellow man. They are selfishly motivated with economic security and personal advancement as the bottom line. The educational system assumes greed and carnality. Since our values are different, since we are going in opposite directions we can’t ride the same school bus.
2. Their secular humanists religion assumes classroom education essential to the fulfillment of humanity -- that the height of civilization is in the gaining of knowledge. It is not original thinking and creativity that is valued; it is the rehashing of the politically correct that is viewed as worthy scholarship. The party line is smart; everything else is “radical right.”"


This is not an exhaustive list, but definitely many of the main reasons.

-Rachel
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_Mort_Coyle
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Post by _Mort_Coyle » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:42 pm

Hi Allyn,

You asked:
My question is then what is the root reason that someone on this forum wants to home school?
I'll take a crack at your question.

A little background:

We home-schooled our son (and only child) for the most part. He is now 19 and well on his way towards a double-major in Physics and Mathematics at the University of Washington. He then plans to enroll in medical school and become a surgeon.

My wife has a degree in Music Education and worked as a public school teacher for a few years after college. She now works a couple of days a week as a substitute teacher in the local public school district.

I am a product of the public school system in Colorado. I received an abysmal education. In fact, my education really began after I dropped out of high school and became an autodidact. There are still huge gaps in my knowledge; for example my math skills are rudimentary at best.

The overarching reason behind our decision to homeschool our son was quality.

When we lived in Colorado we were part of a charter school, which was a wonderful environment. Parents were required to participate and spend a certain number of hours each month volunteering at the school. Homework was rigorous. Discipline was firm. The kids loved it and flourished.

When we moved to Washington, which doesn't allow charter schools, we put our son into an upper middle-class suburban public school and he hated it. He wanted to learn, but the atmosphere was so chaotic that he was constantly frustrated. The ratio of students to teacher was ridiculously high, the lessons were often mindless busywork, individual attention from the beleaguered teacher was minimal, homework was nonexistant (don't want to be cutting into that precious TV time!) and discipline was a joke. The final straw was when his teacher admitted to us that she sent her own kids to a private school.

We next tried a private Christian school (at $5,000.00 a year) but found that although the atmosphere was more orderly, the quality of instruction was poor; probably due to the low salaries they paid their teachers. I was also troubled by some of the fundamentalist bias in the instruction.

So, we reluctantly took the leap into home-schooling. It was scary but fortunately we found great support from other parents. There was a wonderful sense of community. One example: We discovered that our son's soccer coach was a laser physicist, so we asked him if he would tutor our son. He began coming over once a week to teach our son Euclid's Elements. Before long, we had a whole group of home-schooled kids attending the lessons. These classes continued for a couple of years. We even found a public school district that opened a "school for home-schoolers" (they call it a "resource center"), which was sort of an approximation of a charter school. This allowed the kids to have a sense of place and more interaction with one-another. That school is constantly battling for survival against the school board.

I would estimate, from first-hand experience, that 80% of home-schooled kids get an education that is better than what they would get in a public school. They benefit from individual attention and tailored instruction. They are also more likely to retain the values of their parents and be less susceptible to peer pressure. Obviously, it comes down to how dedicated the parents are and the sacrifices they are willing to make in terms of time, energy and money (i.e., one parent not working in order to home-school).

Home-schooling particularly works great up to middle-school (junior high). It gets a little bit more dicy in the high school years, not only because of the advanced material (such as college preparatory stuff) but also the social aspects. Our son got into college and felt like he was a bit out of place socially, since he hadn't been through the "high school experience" (for better or worse) of his peers.

Let's face it, the government-run (i.e., public) school system is a wreck. My wife could tell you stories of what she encounters as a sub that will make you despair for the next generation. I heard an interview the other day with Bill Gates where he talked about the difficulty Microsoft is having finding enough qualified computer engineers coming out of U.S. colleges. This is because of the low number of qualified students coming into the Computer Science departments at colleges. On the other hand, India, China and other countries are rapidly improving the quality of their schools. I think we're setting our kids up for a fall by not giving them a quality education. Just look at how literate past generations of Americans were compared to the last fifty years or so.

My hope is that when my son marries and has kids, he will not send them to public school. My wife and I hope to be able to participate in the education of our grandkids, whatever form of school they attend.
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_Allyn
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Post by _Allyn » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:44 pm

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying I am against home schooling. Its just that since I live in a rural area and education is the gem in the ring for our kids future we Nebraskans take pride in not only the education our state provides but also the freedom to express religious views whether teacher or student. Therefore it is hard for me to relate when I see parents - who may not be qualified in the first place - take their children out of the public school system and take another risk that they can do better with their childs education.
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