Question on Personal Finances

[Guest]

JC,

I've never been married....

Be that as it may; I remember the Greg Boyd sermon you referred to. Someone @ FBFF linked to him and it (I'd never heard of him before).

As I recall, Greg said something to the effect of, "The whole world, with all of its problems, is on God's Shoulders---not mine!" This, of course, we know to be true: God Almighty is sovereign! I think Greg also said that, regardless of how much he gives or doesn't give, (financially or otherwise), the Burden of the Whole World is God's.

This Attribute of God (sovereignty), which I feel we all need to be reminded of: It isn't just a "theory." It's fact. God's purposes are being accomplished and will be accomplished regardless of what we do or don't.

How did Mr. and Mrs. Boyd resolve the "But how much should we do?" issue?
As I remember it, it was:
(1) Know God is sovereign,
(2) Whole World's on His Shoulders,
(3) Pray and come to a standard that God and Mr. & Mrs. "work with,"
(4) Continue to rest assured God is sovereign,
(5) "But how much should we do?" isn't static or fixed,
(6) Reevaluate numbers 1-5 periodically and as needed,
(7) Do what God wants, stop feeling guilty, and rejoice in the Lord (always)!

Thanks, Greg Boyd and FBFFites,

[Guest]

P.S. on a more personal note

Goodwill and other similar organizations accept used shoes, purses, and books.
Pray about it: God might put you folks on a Recycling Plan,

[Guest]

Excellent comments. This is a great discussion. I'm learning a lot. Rick, I remember that Greg said his breakthrough came after he realized that God has given us each a little chunk of the pie to take care of and no more. That makes great logical sense to me but I find it hard to apply at times. I stopped watching the news... that helped.

[Guest]

I think a husband (or wife) who is living according to their conscience before God (on those things that are conscience issues) and allows their spouse to live according to their conscience before God will be more influential (and influential where it counts -- the heart) in their spouse's life than a husband or wife that is telling their spouse, once again, that they made the wrong decision in what they bought.

Wonderfully and excellently stated, Rachel! The first husband (or wife) you describe really show mutual respect, and that enhances their relationship.

I am not advocating "equality" in position. The husband is the leader of the family. But a good leader in any institution listens to those whom he leads and respects their suggestions and supports their desires --- as long as they do not conflict with the primary objectives of the institution.

[Guest]

Hey JC,

I agree with you that this has been an interesting discussion. How I would love to be all in one room talking about all the stuff we talk about on this forum, but face to face!

Sorry, Michelle... I forgot your question:

Just out of curiosity, and because I'm a woman and there aren't that many of us here, what does "frequently" mean?

A couple times a week is frequent to me, though that's not necessarily the thing we argue about.

Hmm, that does seem a little excessive, but I'm not a person who really enjoys shopping. Well, not in public places, actually; I love shopping online.

If my wife has 10 purses and buys another one I feel like I have to comment.

So, you do know, right, that it's annoying?

I don't want her to get all her joy from material things because that's one area where you never get your fix. This is just a man's perspective.

The weird thing is that it does provide a kind of lift. New stuff provides a fleeting sense of comfort and security, as well as an ego boost, for me anyway. I wonder if that's what your wife is seeking as well? If so, hmm...I wonder who in her life could make it his priority to insure she doesn't have to go looking to material things for those feeling?

As usual, Rae has said many, many very insightful things in this thread. One of them was about sitting down and having an objective conversation about a monthly budget. That is a great idea, but in my opinion, this is not the time to do that and here's why:

You've just gotten back from your trip to the Philippines that you characterized as kind of tumultuous. You also mentioned that your wife seemed nonchalant during some of the episodes that sort of shook you up. Perhaps you feel that she moves between the cultures with ease, but, as you've described her to us, she doesn't strike me as an oblivious twit, so I'm sure she feels the same culture shock and notices the same contrasts between our wealth and their lack that you do. You seem pretty emotional about this issue and I'd be willing to bet that she is as well, but is just expressing it differently. Therefore, right now it might be impossible to have an objective, non-emotional discussion about the poor, budgets, spending, or new accessories.

I would say let it go for a couple of months, as long as she's not racking up impossible bills and her concern for, and giving to, the poor is still in place. And compliment her on her new shoes and how nice the home she's making looks.

Just a woman's perspective.

[Guest]

This really is a burdon and I sense it is not healthy. John the Baptist was an ascetic but Jesus himself was not. Do you feel this falls into the general category of condemnation? Any particular scriptures upon which one might meditate? (JC)

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Php 1:25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all, for your advancement and joy of faith,

2Co 13:11 Finally, brothers, rejoice. Perfect yourselves; encourage yourselves; mind the same thing; be at peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.

Rom 15:13 And may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

I agree this is a very interesting discussion & lots of good thoughts and advice already given.

Jesus said we would always have the poor among us. But as has been pointed out, this burden does not rest on your shoulders.
You are responsible for whatever it is that God is asking of you, at this particular time, to be faithful in. If we have a heart attitude of being submitted to God in all things, and are careful to be obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit, our conscience should be at peace.
Also remembering that God may require different things of us at different times, and as we mature.

...God has given us each a little chunk of the pie to take care of and no more. That makes great logical sense to me but I find it hard to apply at times. I stopped watching the news... that helped.

That's probably a wise thing for you to do at this time. I think we often react and allow our feelings to be dictated to by the spirit of this world, whose desire is merely to condemn.

[Guest]

Since I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who is going to disagree with you ... your wife is right.

hunh, it seems that I was wrong...

you sure were, I thought your were kidding, Michelle...I'm surprised it isn't a case of it being a universally acknowledged fact that we women need to buy shoes... 8)

Quote:
I think a husband (or wife) who is living according to their conscience before God (on those things that are conscience issues) and allows their spouse to live according to their conscience before God will be more influential (and influential where it counts -- the heart) in their spouse's life than a husband or wife that is telling their spouse, once again, that they made the wrong decision in what they bought.

Wonderfully and excellently stated, Rachel! The first husband (or wife) you describe really show mutual respect, and that enhances their relationship. (Paidion)

I agree.
Eph 5:21 submitting yourselves to one another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,

I am not advocating "equality" in position. The husband is the leader of the family. But a good leader in any institution listens to those whom he leads and respects their suggestions and supports their desires --- as long as they do not conflict with the primary objectives of the institution. (Paidion)

I also agree with this, so, I do think that, even if a husband hasn't yet seen the light, the wife should be careful to do what God requires of her, and ensure that disagreement does not become rebellion, which God wouldn't bless.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

Certainly this should not be a case of requiring permission for every bit of expenditure; there should be freedom for both within their own sphere of responsibility, and agreed upon parameters.

Although my wife is a hard worker and gives away approximately half her earnings to the poor...(JC)

It may be just the way this is worded, but, in a marriage, shouldn't it be a matter of our income, and what we give to the poor, by mutual agreement?
I'm not being critical, just an interested observation and inquiry for general comment.

[Guest]

Although my wife is a hard worker and gives away approximately half her earnings to the poor...(JC)

It may be just the way this is worded, but, in a marriage, shouldn't it be a matter of our income, and what we give to the poor, by mutual agreement?
I'm not being critical, just an interested observation and inquiry for general comment.

Suzana, thank you for the response and question. The reason I say her earnings (and not "our" earnings) is because she has two jobs and the entire income from one of those jobs goes to helping poor families back in her country, whom I've met personally and know their circumstances. I feel it would be dishonest to say I'm giving the money when she works for every penny of that. Yes, my income pays the bills (most of them anyway) and it allows her to give away all the money from the second job, but it's still her sweat on the bills.