God's Omni-Benevolence

[Paidion]

Jill is right.

The word "will" is simply not there. It has been added by some translators, apparently to bolster their own doctrinal position.

The Greek words are "ανευ (without, or apart from) του πατρος (of the father) υμων (of you)", that is, "without your Father" or "apart from your Father".

[steve]

Hi Paidion,

This point came up on the other thread. I made the following point there as well, though it seemed to have been overlooked.

I am not sure why anyone would think that a phrase "such-and-such a thing will not happen apart from your Father" (being admittedly ambiguous) would sooner be interpreted as "apart from your Father's awareness" (a counterintuitive meaning of such a phrase, and your apparent preference) than as "apart from your Father's will," or "apart from your Father's doing" (seemingly much more natural ways of understanding such a phrase)—unless, of course, someone was guided by his own doctrinal preference.

[Paidion]

I didn't overlook it, Steve. I just didn't agree.

I keep record of all the finances in our family. I will do the records for July at the end of the month. I will not do it apart from my wife. By that I mean that she will examine the records and thus become aware of their content. "I will not do it apart from my wife" does NOT mean, that she herself does the records or helps to do them, or that her will is somehow involved in the record keeping.

[steve]

I guess I think of the phrase as being similar to that in John 15:5—"apart from me you can do nothing." The prepositions ("without," in Matthew, and "apart from," in John) are not the same in the two verses, but the phrases seem to be nonetheless equivalent, both in Greek and in English. In the context of John 15:5, I think it more likely that Jesus means, "You can do nothing without my assistance" or "without my involvement," than that He means "without my awareness."

[Jill]

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[Jill]

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[Paidion]

I guess I think of the phrase as being similar to that in John 15:5—"apart from me you can do nothing." The prepositions ("without," in Matthew, and "apart from," in John) are not the same in the two verses, but the phrases seem to be nonetheless equivalent, both in Greek and in English. In the context of John 15:5, I think it more likely that Jesus means, "You can do nothing without my assistance" or "without my involvement," than that He means "without my awareness."

I agree, Steve, that the prepositions are synonyms. Indeed, the preposition "χωρις" in John 15:5 has the connotation of "apart from" or "separate from" more than the other.

I also agree that "Apart from me you can do nothing" means "Without my assistance or involvement you can do nothing". For, Jesus spoke about remaining in the Vine and so draw from the strength of the Vine. If it meant "apart from my awareness", then it would not seem to follow that the disciples would be any less equipped to do something of value if Jesus were not aware.

Of course, I am not claiming that the phrase "apart from me" always means "apart from my awareness", though I still think that to be the case in Matthew 10:29, for the verse following seems to be an example of the same thing:

Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Does not the fact that the hairs on a person's head are numbered, indicate that the Father is aware of the number of hairs that there are on a person's head? Or does it mean that the Father is personally involved with the hairs on a person's head so that he can't lose even one apart from His will?

[steve]

Good point.

[Homer]

Steve, Paidion, et al,

Consider what James says:

James 4:13-15 (New King James Version)

13. Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; 14. whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. 15. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.”

Does not James inform us that even common business activities are subject to God's will? That whether we succeed in our endeavors, or even live to do so, is in God's hands? How much more so is He interested in the work and lives of those He sends out with the gospel!

We see similar statements in Matthew and Luke. In both places the context concerns fear; Jesus is encouraging them to not be afraid, God cares for them. The reasoning appears to be from the lesser to the greater: if God's care extends to the sparrow, surely He will watch over you. It would not be very assuring to their natural fear if Jesus meant "Do not be afraid of those who want to kill you. Your Father will know about it, just as He is aware when a sparrow dies and is unable to help them".

Matthew 10:21-31 (New King James Version)

21. “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23. When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24. “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25. It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26. Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.
27. “Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. 28. And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29. Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. 30. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke 12:4-7 (New King James Version)

4. “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
6. “Are not five sparrows sold for two copper coins? And not one of them is forgotten before God. 7. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

If God is not involved in the lives of sparrows, what's the point?

[Paidion]

Homer, if your view of God being involved helps you to trust Him more, then by all means hold to it. We all need to trust God with all our hearts.

It doesn't appear to me that God is involved with protecting sparrows. I've never heard of God diverting a bullet from its course when someone shoots at a sparrow. But He's aware of every sparrow that lives or dies. Likewise, God doesn't seem to prevent many rapes, murders, and tortures. But yet we need to trust Him in such matters, even if we are about to suffer at the hands of evil people.

The key phrase in the Scriptures you quoted is "Do not fear." As you quoted, Christ said, "Do not be afraid of them that can kill the body but can do nothing more." Jesus doesn't suggest that we will be protected from those who kill the body. Rather He immediately spoke of sparrows, as as you quoted, saying, "Not one of them is forgotten before God." So from this we infer that not one of us who are persecuted or killed is forgotten before God, either! That doesn't mean that God will necessarily protect us from persecution or death.

The first and second century Christians were not afraid when they faced death. Many of them rejoiced in the midst of suffering, even when chewed up by lions, or in suffering the agonies of being burned at stake.

Our Lord's words of encouragement to his disciples is not that they should expect deliverance from such suffering, but so that they could face suffering and death with confidence, knowing that God knows what they are going through, so that they need not fear. For, at Jesus' return, God will raise them from death , and then will provide for all those who love Him, marvellous things which they have never thought of, or imagined!
(I Corinthians 2:9)