The medical field

_Anonymous
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Post by _Anonymous » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:55 pm

Would any of you ever try to dissuade someone, a fellow believer, from following a doctor's recommended course of action?

I have a friend, a woman of great faith, who has breast cancer which has spread to other parts of her body. The doctors have prescribed chemotherapy as treatment, and after much prayer, laying-on of hands, and anoiting with oil, she and her husband decided to go on with the doctors' recommendation. People have been critical of her decision, and that makes me very sad. She is feeling lousy (physically) enough, but to pile on guilt seems cruel. Not only that, some people have regimens of nutrient supplements that they want to sell her for hundreds of dollars. :roll:
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:51 am

Michelle,

To me this is outrageous. How unloving can "Christians" be? I'm guessing it stems from a misunderstanding of the passage in James regarding calling the elders, etc?

We have a small church in this area which does not believe in getting medical treatment for illness because of the passage in James. They have had two dead children due to treatable causes. In medicine, man does not use anything that God has not created.
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Post by _Anonymous » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:38 am

Homer wrote:Michelle,

To me this is outrageous. How unloving can "Christians" be? I'm guessing it stems from a misunderstanding of the passage in James regarding calling the elders, etc?

We have a small church in this area which does not believe in getting medical treatment for illness because of the passage in James. They have had two dead children due to treatable causes. In medicine, man does not use anything that God has not created.
Thanks Homer. I completely agree with you.
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_loaves
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Post by _loaves » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:04 pm

I have problems with what they call "alternative medicines" like Yoga, Acupuncture, Hypotherapy, and other nonsensical things like that.

Save your money. Don't do those things.

Not only do they rarely "work," they are opening your body to demonic powers.

I try to avoid those things.

Go herbal!! Go natural!! Go unpasteurized!!

Gotta love that unpasteurized apple cider ...
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"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)

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Post by _Anonymous » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:56 pm

loaves wrote: Go herbal!! Go natural!! Go unpasteurized!!

Gotta love that unpasteurized apple cider ...
So...Loaves, is that what you would tell someone who is battling cancer? That's what some of these people are telling my friend, with the addition of the supplements.

BTW, I agree with you on some of the "alternative medicines" as far as they rarely "work," but how do you know they open your body to demonic powers?
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_TK
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Post by _TK » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:09 pm

michelle--

thought i'd resurrect this old post.

in regard to alternative "medicine" like hypnotherapy, yoga, guided imagery or anything that intends to bring deep relaxation or a trance-state, i believe the fear is that if demons are to be found, this is where you will find them. new age practitioners talk about "spirit guides" and the like. in his "counsel for a change" series, Steve G talked about a lady (she was famous somehow but i cant remember her name- or maybe she was a wife or daughter of someone famous) who was into the new age movement and practicing this sort of thing until she realized her spirit guide was a demon.

why does deep-relaxation or trance states invite demonic influence? i dont know the mechanics, but it may have something to do with letting one's conscious guard down. maybe entering a semi-conscious state is equivalent to taking off one's spiritual armor, which could possibly explain possible demonic attacks in dreams or while sleeping.

of course i am just conjecturing!

TK
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_chriscarani
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Post by _chriscarani » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:15 pm

I have problems with what they call "alternative medicines" like Yoga, Acupuncture, Hypotherapy, and other nonsensical things like that.

Save your money. Don't do those things.

Not only do they rarely "work," they are opening your body to demonic powers.
Do you seriously think Yoga is demonic? Not only does it "work", but it actually prevented me from retiring at the ripe old age of 20. From years of extreme sports, hard labor and a car accident that nearly left me with one leg, I was to the point where I could not even go see a movie. If I did I could barely get up and walk afterwards and when I was finally able to walk my knees hurt for days. I started doing yoga 2 times a day for several months and now I can do most anything without problems. Yoga does not have to involve any spiritual channeling, for me and most westerners it is merely physiological and mechanical. It does balance the central nervous system, increase blood and lymphatic circulation, promotes synovial fluid production and increase range of motion, as well as increases the resting length of muscles.

Acupuncture is as well, an effective alternative to many drug and surgery treatments. In addition to herbal therapy, acupuncture is an effective healing modality and has nothing to do with demons or spirits.

If there is anything demonic in the health care industry it is a doctor who performs unnecessary surgeries (a significant percentage are) and charges an entire years salary. Or a pharmaceutical company who makes billions off of a drug they know to be dangerous and harmful. :roll:
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Post by _chriscarani » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:27 pm

Steve wrote:My concerns with the medical practice are not objections to medicine and physicians, per se. Jesus Himself said that physicians are needed for those who are sick (Matt.9:12).

My concerns are with certain current medical attitudes and practices, especially, the over-reliance on pharmaceuticals and over-eagerness to recommend unnecessary surgical procedures (like many hysterectomies and C-sections, for example).

I have several friends who are godly medical practicioners, and to whom I would gladly go if ever I needed medical procedures done on me, but in general, our culture has come to rely upon doctors to a degree that ought to be reserved for our faith in God. Very often, we are like King Asa, who "even in his illness he did not seek help from the LORD, but only from the physicians" (2 Chron.16:12).

The attitude of the medical field, in general (apart from those courageous individual physicians who resist this trend), is to assume that any procedure that our technology enables us to do, should be done. Abortion, transgenderal surgery, stem-cell research, organ harvesting, cloning and much of the routine vaccinating of infants, come immediately to mind. Some of these practices are opposed by all Christians, and others are controversial even among us, but all of them are of questionable wisdom and morality. Nonetheless, they are monetarily profitable practices, and are likely to be with us for a long time to come.

We can clearly see the non-Christian agendas in some of these more-obviously-immoral practices. Therefore, we cannot assume that medical science will be very concerned about Christian morality in general, and practitioners may advocate procedures that are less glaringly wrong, but still morally questionable. Thus it behoves Christians to be discerning and selective in their choices of medical treatments.

In a culture where science is "god," its practitioners are the priesthood. Medical science, in particular, is capable of holding great sway over those who fear nothing so much as their inevitable mortality, and who will follow any procedure and spare no expense to prolong their sorry earthly existence a few more days.

Many doctors are offended if their patients express doubts about a suggested procedure that they have recommended. They are not to be questioned. They are the priesthood of the religion of medical science.

Many doctors have too much confidence in the pharmaceutical solutions to human problems, and ignore spiritual solutions, or even nutritional solutions which God has provided in nature. Perhaps the fault lies not so much with the physicians (who usually are just doing what they have been taught to do), but with the pharmaceutical companies, who push their wares on the public and on the physicians alike, and who disseminate disinformation regarding the safeness and efficacy of non-pharmaceutical remedies. If good health can be maintained by spiritual and natural means, without their prescriptions, this challenges their monopoly on the health care industry. This may adversely impact both their pride and their pocketbooks.

As I said, I have no problem using a doctor's legitimate services (e.g., the setting of a broken bone), and I have often consulted Christian friends who are physicians about health concerns relevant to myself or family members. I am thankful to God that such resources are available, when needed. Just like the leaders of the church, doctors provide a service to be tapped in time of need, but Christians should not allow them to usurp the role that belongs to God alone in their lives.

A couple of interesting websites on nutritional and natural health are given below (I am recommending them only for the information they contain. I am not selling or recommending their products). If any forum readers know some other websites of similar value, please feel free to post them.

http://www.knowledgeofhealth.com
http://www.survivalvitamins.com

Amen Steve.
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Post by _chriscarani » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:32 pm

TK wrote:michelle--



why does deep-relaxation or trance states invite demonic influence? i dont know the mechanics, but it may have something to do with letting one's conscious guard down. maybe entering a semi-conscious state is equivalent to taking off one's spiritual armor, which could possibly explain possible demonic attacks in dreams or while sleeping.

of course i am just conjecturing!

TK
If this were to be true, we should fear sleeping :shock: . I don't think being relaxed has much to do with demons, infact the greatest crimes of humanity, the most demonic and evil, were commited by people who werenat the highest level of awareness and consciouness.
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Post by _chriscarani » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:48 pm

Homer wrote:More and more we are finding that vitamins that were supposed to be so helpful in large doses are more likely to harm than help. The problem with many vitamins and minerals is that no rigorous double-blind studies have been done; they are touted because of a theory, much like female hormones were. Some of them can cause harmful interactions with needed medications.

This is where a problem lies, not with the supplements, but with our mentality of how to use them. People use them like drugs, taking one substance and megadosing on it in hopes of producing a result. This is not the way the body works and it's not the way these natural supplements are intended to be used. The body functions best when it is balanced, not when feed high doses of one particular vitamin or mineral.


There has in fact been many stuidies done, some that go as far back as the 50's. The fact that you have not heard of them just boils down to money. Who is going going to pay to promote a substance that cannot be profited on?
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