What is sin?

[dseusy]

Steve7150,

If I stated that Matthew 5 were exhortations, it was a miscommunication. They are certainly commands. Since they are commands and since I fall short, I trust in Jesus Christ. I used to think I had to confess all of my sins and repent for each one, but God revealed to me that repentance is a continual heart condition, rather than repeated acts which save us. I am constantly heart broken about sin. I hate it. I hate lawlessness. I would confess each individual sin out loud to God, but He already knows I'm repentant. He knows my life is lived in confession- in open brokenness before His law. I would live guilt ridden and depressed but He took away my life of shame by nailing it all to the cross. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me" (Galatians 2:20). I have moved on in some way. I've stopped trying to earn God's love through my works. I've started believing that He grants His love to me because He chose to and He has enabled me to receive it. His love washes away my guilt, shame, and my lifetime of sin. Jesus already died for the sin I sin tomorrow. I already hate it and I don't even know what the day will bring. I will not try to sin and I don't want to sin. Sin is the opposition to love and I hate that which transgresses the perfect love of my heavenly Father. We cannot be His disciples if we don't hate our own lives (this worldly life). Sin causes pain and I try to reduce this as much as possible. Somehow, however, it follows me wherever I go. "For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body" (Romans 8:22-23).

[benstenson]

What is the penalty for disobeying the law of Christ?

Fire and brimstone.

[benstenson]

Thank you, Ben, for your clarification of both my objections. I'm glad that you don't hold to the penal substitution view as I thought you did.

I have checked Augustus Strong's Systemetic Theology and was unable to find "The Moral Government Theory" of the atonement. I did find "The Moral Influence Theory" (or "The Bushnellain Theory") of the atonement. I also found "The Governmental Theory" (or "The Grotian Theory") of the atonement. Is "The Moral Government Theory" identical to either of these?

Perhaps you could explain the main idea of the theory. Then later I'll describe my own understanding.

Paidon, I overlooked your prompt for me to explain my understanding of the governmental perspective of atonement. I was thinking you were going to comment on it having found some explanations on your own. I would be glad to try to explain what I understand about it, but maybe you are already planning on commenting on what you have found? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it if you have a chance.

The basic idea of the governmental view revolves around the role and duty of a ruler in upholding the law. I mainly learned this view from Charles Finney's writings. This is a link to his lecture on the atonement from his systematic theology text http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/ ... y/st34.htm

[dseusy]

We are commanded in Philippians to be anxious for nothing.
We are also commanded to be joyful always.

If I sin against these commands, do I have to repent on each account to be saved from fire and brimstone?
Perhaps a "blanket" repentance would save me from all past anxiety or lack of joy, but what about future sin under these commands? What if I die before the next specific or "blanket" repentance after having sinned again? If God is just, could this sin (which was never covered by my act of repentance) be cause for condemnation?

Consider Hebrews 6:1

[Homer]

dseusy,

It is entirely appropriate to confess our sins as we recognize that we have committed them. But we all "stumble in many ways", often without realizing we have sinned. But consider this story Jesus told:

Luke 18:9-14, NKJV

9. Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10. “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13. And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Note that the Pharisee spoke of specific things he had done and not done while the tax collector confessed what he was and cast himself on God's mercy. Jesus said he was justified. The proper attitude about oneself, and toward God, appears to have great value to God.

[Paidion]

A good answer, Homer! While it is important to repent of our wrongdoing when we become aware of it, I don't think it is "fire and brimstone" for every unconfessed sin, such as, for example, being hit by a train and killed just at the moment we were about to repent of something of which we became aware. If we have been regenerated and are walking on the narrow path, God knows it, and treats us accordingly. If we need correction, He will accomplish it (with our coöperation) in His time, whether pre or post death. But he will not send us into "fire and brimstone" because of a blunder, or even an intentional sin. He will send us to fire and brimstone if we stop serving Christ, and return to the self-serving life. It's the whole character and mode of living as a whole, with which God is concerned — not with individual sins or slipups. He is not ready to pounce on us and send us to hell just because we didn't get the opportunity to repent of something.

[benstenson]

We are commanded in Philippians to be anxious for nothing.
We are also commanded to be joyful always.

If I sin against these commands, do I have to repent on each account to be saved from fire and brimstone?
Perhaps a "blanket" repentance would save me from all past anxiety or lack of joy, but what about future sin under these commands? What if I die before the next specific or "blanket" repentance after having sinned again? If God is just, could this sin (which was never covered by my act of repentance) be cause for condemnation?

Consider Hebrews 6:1

My coworker asked me a similar question earlier this year. He said, "if God requires us to not sin, then I could have one wrong thought and *BAM* get hit by a car and be lost forever."

I think a lot of people have the idea that God requires more from our minds and emotions than we are even able. Charles Finney had an excellent lecture on how people get the will and the feelings mixed up, and end up thinking obedience is impossible, because they know they can't always have the same emotions. He pointed out that our emotions are not directly under our control like our will – they are indirectly under our control. Our emotions follow a law of our nature, in reaction to our thinking, and can be weakened or intensified by our physical states, such as exhaustion or excitability. We can only control our emotions to the degree that we can control our thinking and our biological states. It is a great lecture - here is a link

All of God's law is summed up by love. If we keep this in mind when reading the bible, then it will start to make sense and we will not have totally absurd thoughts like “what if I am not joyful for one second and then suddenly die??” God has a lot more common sense than we do. And He expects us to approach His word with common sense and reason. For example, when the bible says to pray without ceasing, it does not mean you must pray when you are asleep, nor that you can pray and solve math equations at the same time, or anything like that.

The instruction to not worry and to be joyful was for their benefit, not to put them under some kind of fearful legalistic zen bondage.

“What if I start worrying by accident? Then I will be in serious trouble.....oh no... I think I feel it....is my heart beating faster?... I hope I don't start worrying that I will worry! No! It's happening again!”

Think about it. The bible does not say anything like, “I solemnly warn you to never ever have an anxiety-attack by accident (any moment now) or it will be really really bad here it comes oh no!!”

You can't sin by accident - not morally, not in the strict moral sense of the word 'sin'. If you sin by accident, it is a mistake, not evil, not deserving of punishment.

Consider this syllogism:

Mistakes are not evil.
Sin is evil.
Therefore, mistakes are not sin.

or consider this excessively obvious poem:

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
if you honestly try your best,
God will not punish you.

So the only way a person could sin through their emotions would be indirectly, as a result of selfishness. For example, the bible says that cowards will not be saved. But this does not mean someone who has an involuntary sensation of anxiety. But if through selfishness, we choose cowardice rather than love, then of course we deserve to be punished. If someone deliberately chooses cowardice rather than loving his neighbor, or rather than standing up for the truth, then he deserves punishment and needs to repent.

If we sin then we either repent or remain in sin. Repentance is a change of heart or intention from being ultimately selfish to being loving/benevolent. Like you said dseusy, we can't break one of God's commandments without breaking the whole law. That is why a single sin that is not repented of, is really total sinfulness. Partial obedience is total disobedience. Any deliberate sin at all that is not repented of is worthy of hell. Breaking a law once incurs the penalty of that law.

It is not that God wants anyone to go to hell, but that sin is really that bad, that God must punish it to prevent the spread of lawlessness and suffering. The penalty of God's law is not an indication of malice on His part. God wants people to be saved more than they even want to be saved themselves. The penalty of God's law is an expression of the true harmfulness of sin and God's concern for the well-being of His kingdom. The fact that God is patient and merciful with us, does not at all change the fact of what sin deserves. On the contrary, a diminished view of the guilt of sin will lead to a diminished view of God's patience and mercy.

[dseusy]

Homer,

I couldn't agree more.

[dseusy]

Paidion,

I agree with the general message of your post here, but I disagree with a few of your statements which I feel compromise God's justice. I think God is concerned with individual sins, and even an unintentional lawless act is still a lawless act.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10

"No one who abides in Him sins ; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him." 1 John 3:6

"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9

"We know that no one who is born of God sins" 1 John 5:18a

I believe we will not be sent to "fire and brimstone" because of Christ's credited righteousness which doesn't just give us a fresh beginning on the narrow path, but which puts us on the narrow path because of our faith in His gift of righteousness.

[dseusy]

Benstenson,

I believe most or all of God's commands are for our benefit as the command to not worry is, as you mentioned. But more than just benefiting us, there is a consequence for transgressing love. We are freed from this eternal consequence through Christ, but apart from Christ we are condemned because all have sinned (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20).

Honestly trying your best resulting in God not punishing you sounds good, but it is man's idea. Where is the scripture which communicates this? Since all have sinned, who honestly tries their best?

Partial obedience is total disobedience, as you stated, concerning holiness (James 2:10). If we are less than perfect, we are less than perfect. Jesus commanded us to be perfect (Matthew 5:48, James 1:4)). If the requirement was to be our best, He would have stated it. Since a loving God likely would not require the impossible, there must be some way for us to accomplish perfection in light of the inadequacy of our "best".

Lawlessness truly is harmful, as you stated, but even unintentional lawlessness is harmful. God required a sacrifice from His people for unintentional sin (Numbers 15). Those who sin unintentionally are not perfect unless they have been born again. God places heavy importance on knowing His laws (I believe for this very reason).

Let's stick to the Word, or else we may find ourselves trying to be made perfect by the flesh (Galatians 3:3).