Response to Steve Gregg's article-Is Tithing For Christians?

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:00 pm

Aaron,

Thank you for generating an interesting (and passionate) discussion. My goal hasn't been particularly to change your view, but to get you to stop accusing those who don't hold your view of "robbing God". I hope you can see that those here who profess giving vs. the tithing system do so out of honest conviction and desire to follow scripture and honor God.

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:00 pm

Hi Mort,
Once again I said I wasn't gonna post in this thread and here I go. I guess I better stop making false claims

.

Thank you all for the conversation as well. I realize no point of view has been changed and I suppose that is fine. I understand that all that hold the position opposite of mine do so with sincerity of heart. I completely disagree with that position, but I suppose it isn't the first time Christians have disagreed on a subject. That's just one of those I'm more passionate about.
But thanks again, all. Remember.......pay them tithes!!!

Your brother
Aaron

Post by **_djeaton** » Thu May 04, 2006 4:56 pm

Does anyone know the history of where the legalistic NT tithe teaching came from? Did it's teaching grow as the power of the Catholic Church did? Do any of the early church fathers endorse a legalistic 10%? Were they in agreement on it?
D.

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:06 pm

djeaton wrote:Does anyone know the history of where the legalistic NT tithe teaching came from? Did it's teaching grow as the power of the Catholic Church did? Do any of the early church fathers endorse a legalistic 10%? Were they in agreement on it?
D.

Sure - there was this guy named Jesus who told a group that they should not leave the tithe undone. DOn't know if he was really worth listening to or not

Okay - this time I'm really finished

adios

Post by **_djeaton** » Thu May 04, 2006 5:27 pm

AARONDISNEY wrote:
djeaton wrote:Does anyone know the history of where the legalistic NT tithe teaching came from? Did it's teaching grow as the power of the Catholic Church did? Do any of the early church fathers endorse a legalistic 10%? Were they in agreement on it?
D.
Sure - there was this guy named Jesus who told a group that they should not leave the tithe undone.

I know your point. But your point doesn't address my question. Where did the belief that the NT local church equates to the OT temple as far as a legalistic tithe come from? Early Christians met regularly together as a local assembly of believers and went to the Temple. Did they owe a tithe to both? Did Gentile converts owe a tithe to the Temple when it was in existance? When the Jews were scattered to the four winds and the Temple was destroyed, are they legalistically bound to tithe to anyone that showed up claiming to be a member of the tribe of Levi?
D.

Post by **_JD** » Thu May 04, 2006 6:05 pm

AARON,

I feel the Holy Spirit is leading me away from this erroneous teaching of yours, ahem. (Forum inside joke for newcomers.)

JD

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Thu May 04, 2006 6:16 pm

JD wrote:AARON,

I feel the Holy Spirit is leading me away from this erroneous teaching of yours, ahem. (Forum inside joke for newcomers.)

JD

You need to get saved, JD (also a joke

)

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:17 pm

Remember.......pay them tithes!!!

Got my farm produce loaded on the donkey as we speak and am headed over to the temple.

Does anyone know the history of where the legalistic NT tithe teaching came from?

djeaton,

It can be traced back to the Catholic church in the 6th Century.

Historians usually agree that, not until A.D. 567, five hundred and thirty seven (537) years after Calvary, did the Church’s first substantial attempt to enforce tithing under its own authority appear in history! The Council of Tours in 567 and the Council of Macon in 585 enacted regional church decrees for tithing and excommunication of non-tithers, but did not receive authority from the king to enforce collection through civil decrees. It is significant that tithing did not emerge historically until the church became powerful in the secular realm. Eventually, the Roman Church even refused to administer last rites if it was not given wealth or land in wills.

Between 774 to 777 the Frankish king, Charlemagne, destroyed the Lombard kingdom which separated his empire from northern Italy. After his defeat of the Lombards, Charlemagne’s unopposed rule included northern Italy and Rome. By quoting the Mosaic Law as its authority at a Church synod, the pope finally convinced Charlemagne to allow enforced tithing in support of the fast-growing parish system of churches. In 785 Pope Hadrian attempted to impose tithing on the Anglo-Saxons. In appreciation of his church support, on Christmas Day, A.D. 800, the pope crowned Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor, thus making official the renewed “Holy” Roman Empire. In 906 King Edgar legally enforced tithing in England.

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216), in order to strengthen and purify the church, ordered that tithes for the support of the church be given precedence over all other taxes, excluded all lay interference in church affairs, and prohibited any one man from drawing the income from more than one church office. Theologian Thomas Aquinas defended tithing by stating, “During the time of the New Law the authority of the Church has established the payment of tithes” (Summa Theologica, Vol. 3, The Second Part of the Second Part).

In 10th century England tithing was made obligatory under church penalties by Edgar. In 1067 and 1078, at the Church Councils of Gerona, and in 1215 at the Fourth Lateran Council, tithing was increasingly applied to all lands under Christian rule. All citizens, including Jews, were required to tithe to the Roman Catholic Church. A typical peasant was giving the first tithe of his land to ruler or landlord (which was often the church) and a second tenth to the church outright.

In 1179 the Third Lateran Council decreed that only the pope could release persons from the obligation to tithe, and he exempted the Crusaders.

- Should the Church Teach Tithing?, Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.
http://prayershack.freeservers.com/down ... ybook.html

Post by **_JD** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:05 am

"Sure - there was this guy named Jesus who told a group that they should not leave the tithe undone. DOn't know if he was really worth listening to or not

"

Aaron, please don't go yet. I need to know where you get your mint, anise and cummin. I don't have any, and I don't want to rob God, since that is what Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe. Mort is picking me up for the temple run. 8)

Post by **_Sean** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:44 am

JD wrote:"Sure - there was this guy named Jesus who told a group that they should not leave the tithe undone. DOn't know if he was really worth listening to or not "

Aaron, please don't go yet. I need to know where you get your mint, anise and cummin. I don't have any, and I don't want to rob God, since that is what Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe. Mort is picking me up for the temple run. 8)

Don't you know that you are the temple? That means that all you eat are things "sacrificed" at the "temple", in which case we all tithe 100% of our food.